Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

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BillEKlub
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Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby BillEKlub » Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:52 am

Politically/Economically non-Astute Observer seeks concise, plausible explanation of expected cause and effect of the Occupy Don Miller Movement.

What is the purpose of the ramshackle tent city that has sprung up in the otherwise barren expanse of concrete FKA Don Miller? Ho-Made signage was not helpful, no ODM personnel were spotted, no agenda, no march; heck, no discernible activity as of 9 am today.

This being America and all, I tend to lean in favor of free assembly, free speech and all that good stuff, but this doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. Are these people for Concealed Carry? Raw Milk? Walker Recall? Against Subaru? Paved areas? Don Miller?

What is the message/cause/raison d'être ?

rabble
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby rabble » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:04 am

They're going to use one of the Don Miller buildings as a homeless warming shed this winter. With the permission of the city.

ilikebeans
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:14 am

Or perhaps not.

rabble
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby rabble » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:01 pm

Huh. The email I saw last week made it sound like it was proceeding on track. I guess somebody decided things were going too damn well.

ilikebeans
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:04 pm

I especially like the required landscaping plan for a property that's only planned to be occupied from now until March.

narcoleptish
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby narcoleptish » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:25 pm

ilikebeans wrote:Or perhaps not.



Just when I thought the google barrel roll was the stupidest thing I was going to encounter today, I read that article. Landscaping, sprinklers, restriping the lot, public hearing so neighbors can decide what kind of window treatments should be required..

What is wrong with us? We're like a parody of a functional society.

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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby snoqueen » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:41 pm

There are times I miss it, but there are other times I'm really, really glad I don't live in Tenney Lapland any more.

This is ridiculous.

At the same time, I gotta say sprinklers can save a bunch of lives in a fire, and aren't all that expensive to put in a wide-open place like that.

jman111
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby jman111 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:55 pm

At a time when exceptions are being made to policies in order to accomodate and facilitate profits for developers, it would seem prudent to make exceptions for temporary use of a currently-unused facility by our neediest citizens.

Were the plan to involve conversion to a permanent shelter facility, I think the expectations may be bit more palatable.

Ducatista
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby Ducatista » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:08 am

If you think building and zoning codes are ridiculous governmental meddling, then of course the Planning Division memo sounds ridiculous.

But if you think building and zoning codes are necessary to keep people safe and communities livable, rolling your eyes at the administrative hurdles is hypocritical.

If "landscape plan" means Porchlight has to plant the right shrubbery, then yeah, that's stupid. If it means Porchlight needs to describe what they plan to do with the landscape (which is probably nothing), it's smart. Temporary occupants can have permanent consequences, and requiring a plan only makes sense.

I hope the city and Porchlight can work it out.

Bland
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby Bland » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:50 am

Ducatista wrote:But if you think building and zoning codes are necessary to keep people safe and communities livable, rolling your eyes at the administrative hurdles is hypocritical.


Isn't is possible to think building and zoning codes are good and necessary AND to think that exceptions could reasonably be made for unusual and temporary circumstances?

Ducatista
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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby Ducatista » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:29 pm

Yup.

It's also possible to hope the city can be flexible, and also think the "Ridiculous!" response to the memo is an overly simplistic knee jerk.

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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby snoqueen » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:49 pm

I'll be more specific:

I'm one of the biggest supporters of UDC you'll find, but I think requiring them to review a temporary winter homeless shelter in an existing, unused building is silly.

Porchlight would need to submit a new site plan for the use -- and landscaping -- of one of the shuttered auto showrooms for review and approval by the Urban Design Commission before a permit could be issued.


That's from the linked article. If UDC were to review the plans under the understanding the whole thing is temporary, they'd probably have very little to review and being smart people, they'd probably not come up with a whole laundry list of requirements. But if scheduling UDC review sets the shelter back two months, what good is that?

I also think the landscaping thing is silly. Just require Porchlight to leave the grounds as they found them.

Any code things -- safety of occupants -- should be enforced or meaningfully negotiated. And sleeping space codes can be quite strict, though I don't know the specific provisions of Madison's code.

If there are awake supervisory staff all night, for instance, some code provisions could be waived for the winter. I don't know, but I think Madison's city staff are smart people who can come up with a sensible compromise in this situation.

Just remember this is a temporary use so remodeling the whole building doesn't make sense, particularly when it's likely to be torn down soon as the lot is redeveloped, which is right now in the early stages of happening.

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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby jman111 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:14 pm

snoqueen wrote:And sleeping space codes can be quite strict, though I don't know the specific provisions of Madison's code.

If there are awake supervisory staff all night, for instance, some code provisions could be waived for the winter. I don't know, but I think Madison's city staff are smart people who can come up with a sensible compromise in this situation.

Just as clarification- this would be a daytime shelter, not overnight accomodations, according to everything I've seen.

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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby Ducatista » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:08 pm

snoqueen wrote:But if scheduling UDC review sets the shelter back two months, what good is that?

Slow-moving bureaucracy sucks. But it's no surprise, so I hope Porchlight started scrambling for options the second they knew the Capitol basement would no longer be an option. Whether they did or didn't, I hope the city will find a way to fast-track this (the "generally" and "typically" in the Planning Department memo suggests to me it might), and that Porchlight will fast-track their fulfillment of requirements.

snoqueen wrote:I also think the landscaping thing is silly. Just require Porchlight to leave the grounds as they found them.

That's the knee-jerk part. The city isn't asking them to landscape. It's asking for a landscape plan. How do you know "We won't mess with the landscape" isn't enough? It's not clear to me from the memo. Did you read it? Was that clear to you?

It could be that over-the-top bureaucracy will keep this seemingly smart plan from moving forward, and that would be awful. But there's nothing in the Planning memo to suggest that to me on its face.

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Re: Occupy Don Miller (ODM)

Postby snoqueen » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:40 pm

That may be part of the problem -- I read the article and the comments in this topic, but nowhere do I see a link to the memo. I am usually pretty good about following links before I comment, but where's the link? Schneider talks about some attached pdf, but did she attach it? I have to admit I find her articles less than well-organized at times, which might be my own fault. I'm no professional journalist.

Regarding overnight stays, I think once cold weather sets in and all these people have nowhere to go at night but their cars (if they have cars), and the regular shelters overflow, won't they be asking to use the Don Miller space at night? I was assuming that, but it was my own thought not something from the reports. Throwing everyone out at 5 pm on a subzero night doesn't sound like a Madison thing to do -- we talk strict, but we're actually pretty decent.

I still don't see "leaving things the way you found them" as a landscaping plan, but I want to read this mysterious memo before I decide.


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