Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
green union terrace chair
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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:49 am

jjoyce wrote:As for THIS THREAD, as I said above, I'm anti-fireworks. Why are they such a big deal? And are you serious with this stuff about providing the at-risk kids in our community with a fireworks display of their own?


I'd say they are important to that neighborhood, but yeah, the city doesn't need to fund them. (And the city doesn't fund R&B, it funds the police.)

I know there have been problems with sponsors (like when the Boy Scouts ended their affiliation, I think), but have the Elver fireworks ever not happened? It seems like some private sponsor has always stepped up to the need.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby HOMOsapien » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:54 am

I'm anti any public funds going towards entertainment that is already in abundance around the city. That includes grand spectacles. These events are almost like some kind of visual drug. The 'wow factor' can become addictive and is easy to sell. I get it, fireworks are cute and fun. People like easy and fun. It's an easy political and social policy sell. So what, that doesn't justify doing it. What value do these events hold besides their momentary 'wow factor' that wears off within 36 hours? And the noise and air pollution trade offs? Doesn't seem like the eye candy fun outweighs the costs.

Dairylander wrote:The Elver show is special to a lot of kids who wouldn't otherwise be able to see fireworks. That show serves neighborhoods where a lot of the kids don't have the resources to get to Warner.


Shows aren't public services, they are eye candy. Also, the above isn't a point. It's an awful play to weak minded people's emotions. Save the bleeding heart crap for your next pot smoking circle.
Last edited by HOMOsapien on Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:56 am

Save the bleeding heart crap for your next pot smoking circle.


Everyone knows the best way to smoke pot is in a straight line.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Dairylander » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:02 pm

jjoyce wrote: And are you serious with this stuff about providing the at-risk kids in our community with a fireworks display of their own?

HOMOsapien wrote: Save the bleeding heart crap for your next pot smoking circle.

It's not about bleeding for the at-risk kids.
It's about democratic distribution of these funds.
Rhythm and Booms serves Sun Prairie better than it serves Meadowood.
I haven't smoked weed in 20 years, but it sure sounds like HOMOsapien could benefit from a good mellow.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby jjoyce » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:07 pm

Dairylander, that's garbage. We don't need equal distribution of fireworks in this town. Not only that, but whereas you can see R&B from anywhere on Lake Mendota (Union, downtown, Middleton, etc.), you almost have to be AT Elver to see those.

By this logic, we ought to sponsor another display at Penn Park, because how are the kids who live in that neighborhood going to see either display?

And when is the Elver Park pool going to get built? Hey, wait... if we dedicated 40 Gs a year to an actual community-building project like that (and sought private money on top of it), instead of fireworks, we might get somewhere!

But it's likely alders like Thuy would vote against that. Not basic city services, right?

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:09 pm

green union terrace chair wrote: (And the city doesn't fund R&B, it funds the police.)

I'm aware of that.
It still doesn't answer my question as to why.
Is R&B a moneymaker for the city or just flushing money down the drain in the name of loud noise and pretty colors?

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Dairylander » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:13 pm

admin wrote:We don't need equal distribution of fireworks in this town.

We don't need distribution of fireworks at all.
But if the city is subsidizing, it can't play favorites.
admin wrote:By this logic, we ought to sponsor another display at Penn Park

Sounds like a great idea.
Several small displays around the city instead of one big one would have many benefits.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Athena » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:09 pm

Dairylander wrote:The Elver show is special to a lot of kids who wouldn't otherwise be able to see fireworks.
That show serves neighborhoods where a lot of the kids don't have the resources to get to Warner.


I don't know about your neighborhood, but where I live there are fireworks going off almost every night all summer. They never last long enough to call the police but they make my dogs go crazy. I'm very anti-fireworks because of it. There's enough home-made firework displays that I don't think we need the city paying for any.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Dairylander » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:39 pm

Athena wrote:There's enough home-made firework displays that I don't think we need the city paying for any.

As I said twice before, I agree fireworks are a waste of money.
But if the city is writing checks, it can't play favorites.
The issue at hand is not which types of events are funded, it's whether the city should say Warner - yes, Elver - no.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:42 pm

Dairylander wrote:As I said twice before, I agree fireworks are a waste of money. But if the city is writing checks, it can't play favorites. The issue at hand is not which types of events are funded, it's whether the city should say Warner - yes, Elver - no.

The fireworks display at Warner is privately funded. The city just pays the police overtime for traffic control.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Dairylander » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:53 pm

Henry Vilas wrote: The city just pays the police overtime for traffic control.

Yeah, we've already been through that.
Dairylander wrote:This is about the city dropping $100,000.00 for police at Rhythm and Booms, then claiming that we can't afford to help out the Elver fireworks.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:57 pm

So, wouldn't the city actually be "playing favorites" if it chose to fund the Elver show while "only" paying for cops at Warner?

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby supaunknown » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:57 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:
jjoyce wrote:I'm anti-fireworks. There, I said it.

Jason, why do you hate America?

No doubt. 4th of July fireworks are as American as baseball & apple pie.
I grew up a few blocks from Elver Park. I remember when that hill was pretty steep (it's seen a lot of use and has eroded over the years). Elver was the edge of the 'burbs back in the day.
Yeah, our dog hated the fireworks too. Big deal. It's one day a year the pampered pets can suffer.
Oh the traffic. What other westside event actually brings people together to celebrate? None? Exactly.
I think the city should try hard to find another sponsor, but if they can't they should fund it with tax monies. Elver is a great spot for the fireworks and people have come to expect it.
Last edited by supaunknown on Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:04 pm

Two thoughts:

1) I must have the only dog on the planet that doesn't give a shit about fireworks. She's not wild about thunderstorms though. Figure that one out.

2) If there's a totally half-witted stance to be taken in an argument, Dairylander will take it.

Dairylander wrote:This is about the city dropping $100,000.00 for police at Rhythm and Booms, then claiming that we can't afford to help out the Elver fireworks.

That's just not accurate. Nobody is suggesting the city pick and choose events they're going to police. The issue here is that Elver lost its sponsor for the fireworks shindig. If a corporate sponsor steps in, the show will go on.

You've been slapped down twice now (make this three times) for talking out your ass. Just once I'd like to see you debate an issue and demonstrate the slightest bit of understanding of the topic.

I won't hold my breath.

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Re: Fireworks: Aren't there more important things?

Postby Walter » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:39 pm

I wasn't going to say anything but I can't help myself.

R&B sucks. Elver sucks. Warner ties up Police resources to nearly the breaking point city wide and Elver to the breaking point in the west district and strains the rest of the city. If we ever have "the big one" like a murder go down on one of these days, we would not be able to meet the needs of the incident and respond proportionately. We are already on emergency and priority calls only during these events. Fire/Rescue can barely get through the areas of these events and it takes them forever to do so.

I don't know what R&B brings into the city, other than Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel from every trailer park within 100 miles with their coolers of food and beer they eat and drink in their cars while waiting for the sun to go down. I doubt they spend any real money in the city. The citizens of Madison don't spend any more money in town because of it. Traffic is screwed up and nobody's happy because they can't just zip on home.

I worked it for years, being ordered in 4 hours early, standing at intersections with little chance of using a bathroom after roasting on the asphalt for hours, having only what I brought with me to eat and drink if someone was able to get me relief to actually drink or eat, almost being hit by cars at least 2 or 3 times each event, being yelled and cursed at by people who can't get home fast enough for their tastes, and then having to go work the rest of the night in patrol, chasing after calls that have been holding, sometimes for hours, all over the rest of the City. And no, no one tells you about this when you get hired by the MPD, either. Your first year out, it's "surprise!". Finally I got smart and now I take my vacation over R&B, especially since I live on the north side. I can't get away from it by simply staying home. I try to leave town every year.

Elver is just a concentrated version that hits the west side. Shorter in duration and scope but still ties up resources for most of the day in the West district and leaves West, South, and Central units running all over the west side chasing calls until after 2:00AM after the party lets out. Not to mention the huge fights and gang activity that take place in Elver all day...because no one feels the need to report them to or in the media. We have deployed patrols in the park starting in the early afternoon, if memory serves, for an event that occurs several hours later. Why? Because the event is nothing more than a giant free-for-all. I worked in the West district for a few years, and while not as bad as R&B, Elver just about eliminates any police response within that district for at least a couple of hours. God help us if a major incident happens in the park like a shooting...and there are guns being illegally carried in Elver Park. The merry-go-round would break down.

I like fireworks. I like celebrating the 4th of July. I just don't like the combination of the two here. These events are too large for the City to adequately handle. We've been lucky over the years that nothing has really happened during these events. R&B has grown into a monster that no one has the guts to kill and Elver a show for people who wanted their own party that is now out of control.

I'd like to see both disappear. Maybe the City doesn't directly pay the lion's share of the cost of the events in money, but the whole City definitely pays.


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