Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

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gargantua
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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby gargantua » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:29 pm

So far this season, I've spread about 75 pounds of salt on my walk and driveway.

I have to say, I don't much like the idea, but it really has worked pretty well. When it's real cold, it doesn't do much, but when it warms up, I have a clear walk.

Man...75 pounds of salt and winter just started. Thinking about moving to a warmer climate, which will kill me because I love this town.

People bitch and bitch about it. Think seriously about living somewhere else some time....you might feel a bit differently.

eriedasch
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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby eriedasch » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:20 pm

gargantua wrote:I have to say, I don't much like the idea

Have you considered sand? Or even mixing some sand in with your salt to at least reduce how much salt you are using?

How are you spreading it? Please consider using something to spread it more evenly vs. dumping handfulls over ever inch of the walk (over salting) like they seem to do at the big office building I work at. Sure the walks are clear of ice, but then you have piles of salt all over the bare walk days after all the ice and snow is gone.

Sounds like you do have a conscience for the environment, yet using an awful lot of salt just for just one driveway and sidewalk. I'll assume it is a very large area you are trying to clear.

I use sand and sometimes a little gravel if it is really slick / lots of ice. I admit my driveway is not completely bare of ice and snow - mainly because it is for cars, not people needing to walk on every square inch of it. But my sidewalk stays pretty clear as I shovel every time it snows.

Also condsider the fact that salt is very bad for dogs' feet if you have dog walkers that use your public walk.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby jefsaw » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:29 pm

towanda wrote:Yaktrax. Just in case you don't have any yet.


Thanks for the YakTrax suggestion. Very cool. I wonder if they make 'em for my Basset Hound too.

http://www.sawyerspeaks.wordpress.com

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Bwis53 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:26 pm

Anyone know if there's a site for Shorewood Hills report-a-problem? The walk from University and N.Midvale , just past Janet's Antiques, is like a pile of rocks, for over a week. Madison emailed me, that it was Shorewood Hills' problem. When I called Shorewood's village hall, at 9:30 A.M., the guy said he'd "look into it". Tonight that curve is still like a pile of bumpy ice. I thought they'd want to beat the big freeze.

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Why not just scrape them?

Postby Mitch_M1 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:18 pm

When I was responsible for the sidewalks where I rented I shoveled down to bare pavement before the snow got packed down and then the sidewalk would get dried by the sun on the first sunny day.

If it was slippery after I shoveled I needed just a little salt to make the sidewalk safer.

Salting a thick layer of packed down snow or ice melts it eventually but it also makes a slushy mess that ruins people's shoes. It doesn't take long to scrape a sidewalk and it's kind of fun.

I can't believe how many people are content to do a half assed job at snow removal. What happened to having pride in one's work?

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:34 pm

Bwis53 wrote:Anyone know if there's a site for Shorewood Hills report-a-problem?

Here's a start.

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Re: Why not just scrape them?

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:39 pm

Mitch_M1 wrote: It doesn't take long to scrape a sidewalk and it's kind of fun.

Not if you are in your sixties. Also my sidewalk is on the north side of my house. Not much sun reaches it in the winter. I scrape the best I can and then, regrettably, I resort to as little salt as possible to break up the packed ice.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby snoqueen » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:35 pm

Go to Ace and get one of those garden hoes with a blade that's not at 90 degrees to the handle, but 180 degrees. It's maybe 8 inches wide and you can sharpen it with a belt sander or by grinding it against a flat piece of concrete (like your walk).

On a day like today, you can use it to scrape clear down to pavement with little trouble. If the ice is really hard, repeatedly drop the hoe blade-first onto the ice to crack it so you can scrape it up.

If I was a smarter person, I'd get about ten of those things at the start of every winter and every time someone asked "where'd you get that thing?" I'd sell mine to them and go downstairs and get another.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:47 pm

snoqueen wrote:Go to Ace and get one of those garden hoes with a blade that's not at 90 degrees to the handle, but 180 degrees. It's maybe 8 inches wide and you can sharpen it with a belt sander or by grinding it against a flat piece of concrete (like your walk).

I've had (and used) one for years. But a couple inches of solid ice and temps in the single digits wins out. I've been working on it for days. I finally got it cleaned up. Tomorrow is another story.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Bwis53 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:09 pm

I've made my first report a problem for this Winter. The big deal to me is safety and how little some people think about that. (I've done plenty of shoveling and salting, thinking of my neighbors' safety.) You'd think people would not want that something bad should happen to their fellow man. And I know there's plenty of pedestrians in my neighborhood, because I see the frozen footprints. If you lived in an apartment and slipped on your ass, you'd complain.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:12 pm

Don't bother to report sidewalks adjacent to municipal owned property. Case law exempts them from the same standards that apply to private individuals.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Average Joe » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Don't bother to report sidewalks adjacent to municipal owned property. Case law exempts them from the same standards that apply to private individuals.


Just because they're exempt from legal action doesn't mean they won't respond to complaints. Fortunately, I'm yet not cynical enough to believe all municipal mangers have a tin ear.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:02 pm

Average Joe wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Don't bother to report sidewalks adjacent to municipal owned property. Case law exempts them from the same standards that apply to private individuals.


Just because they're exempt from legal action doesn't mean they won't respond to complaints. Fortunately, I'm yet not cynical enough to believe all municipal mangers have a tin ear.

If the past has any bearing on the future, I wouldn't bet on it. It's been a constant complaint and rightly so. That how a lawsuit ending in the Wisconsin Supreme Court, which ruled that municipalities have at least two weeks after the snow falls before an individual can bring a tort claim for suffering/damages due to a hazardous walk. Even if that municipality has much stricter ordinances for their own residents.

Sovereign immunity and all that.

There is a detailed discussion with citations on that point, somewhere in the archives of this forum.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby Bwis53 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:07 pm

1/12/09 is when I wrote the Shorewood Hills complaint. They still neglect.

My more recent complaint is in my own neighborhood.

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Re: Salt or sand your damn walks! Please.

Postby roadkill bill » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:09 pm

General observation: Sidewalks "cleared" with a snowblower tend to, on average, be less clean than those cleared by hand. Snowblowers don't get the last layer of heavy snow off the sidewalk, and the owners of those properties don't seem to go back and finish the job. Grrrrr.

Especially vexing in my neighborhood because the lots are pretty small, so a snowblower already seems like overkill. And there are lots of pedestrians - from little kids to elderly - that use those sidewalks and need a safe paath.

Specific to municipal properties: Maybe, just maybe, the head of whatever department is operating out of that building will be shamed into getting the sidewalk cleared if people repeatedly and publicly complain about a particular property.

A few well-publicized photos might make them get out and do the job. Also, complain to the alder for the area, and hope that s/he passes it on to the staff in charge.


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