What is up with King Street Lately?

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?

Should Club Majestic be closed or punished?

Yes
22
52%
No
20
48%
 
Total votes: 42

minicat
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Postby minicat » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:08 am

I was leaving King Street Friday night at 2:20 am. I saw a whole lot of drunk people milling around, no disturbances and, interestingly, no cops.

juanton
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Postby juanton » Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:59 am

If I'm not mistaken the "crazy" night at the Club Majestic is always Saturday night.

The last time I witnessed it was after a show at The King Club. I was loading my shit out and both lanes of traffic on King St. were facing the same direction and stopped. Traffic didn't move one bit for the whole 45 minutes while I was outside. There was probably about 400-500 people hanging out in the street.

I agree Dave Esmond, the cops need to start forcing the loitering issue abit harder. I saw absolutely no cops the last time I witnessed the crowds.

supaunknown
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Postby supaunknown » Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:04 am

Man, I could be wrong (and often am), but I thought Madison basically had a "test run" with the no loitering ordinace and ended up repealing it a couple years back. :?

Ruggedman
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Postby Ruggedman » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:27 pm

Yeah I bet that "keep it moving" would help, but why are we having to pay for it? Why should I as a citizen pay more cops to keep someone else's situation under control? I've worked security at several clubs, bigger and smaller and YOU andI both know that the Club Majestic is not holding up their end of the bargain. Yes they can read the crowd yes they know when "Shit's gonna go down!" and if they don't they're not able to do their jobs! Be at the meeting tonight to discuss. 7P.M. Room 260 Madison Municipal Blgd Monday AUG 7th

aaron
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Postby aaron » Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:41 pm

To those of you who are so quick to defend hip hop and refuse to accept its contribution to the kind of behavior exhibited on King Street, here is just one of many articles on the subject, published on the MTV website:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/152893 ... lines=true

charliedon'tsurf
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Postby charliedon'tsurf » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:14 pm

aaron wrote:To those of you who are so quick to defend hip hop and refuse to accept its contribution to the kind of behavior exhibited on King Street, here is just one of many articles on the subject, published on the MTV website:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/152893 ... lines=true

Well that is a dumb article to back up an even stupider assertion. First up, notice that the study shows that those tendencies apply to fans of reggae, rock and techno as well. News flash: kids who gravitate to music subcultures, be it rock or hip hop, do not tend to be straight laced conformists kids who follow typical norms and are afraid to defy authority. I do not know if violence is necessarily endemic to such subcultures, but overwhelmingly drug and alcohol use and abuse is. I have been in the rock scene for twenty years and chemical debauchery is always present to a certain degree. So it does not surprise me that is part of hip hop culture as well.

As for the violence aspects, I will admit there has been some degree of correlation locally with violence at hip hop DJ nights. That doesn't mean that hip hop music equals violence now and forever. I attend mainly punk shows in Madison in 2006 and violence is extremely rare. On the other hand in the late 80's when I started going to punk shows violence was a constant feature. Punks were always beating the shit out of each other back then. In some cases, so badly that ambulances had to be called to haul kids away. I do not know what cause so many fights at punk shows in the 80's or what causes them now in Madison at hip hop DJ nights. Probably quite a complex stew of circumstances that can't be boiled to a single factor.

I do know that it is simplistic to think that any type of music is inherently violent and you should educate yourself to the huge universe that is hip hop culture so you can make an informed opinion. All of hip hop is not PDiddy. A lot of it doesn't totally suck and actually has something to say other than "back that ass up".

eastside
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Postby eastside » Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:55 pm

The problems outside the Majestic are highly viable symptoms of poverty, gangs and community inaction. Does is surprise me that the weekend after a gun incident that someone would be stabbed? Hell no. It's called retaliation and if you paid attention to anything about gangs, you know that there's always retaliation. Did the police department prepare for a retaliation?


It's funny that you ask if the police were ready for retaliation and fail to mention what the Majestic did or could have done to avoid the situation. Why should we, as taxpayers, have to solve the problem created by the Majestic that was profiting from the night?

I'm not saying the the police response was adequate but I think it's pathetic that you look to all of these solutions except the obvious one that stands with the establishment that has the most control over the situation.

How many shows were there in Madison this weekend where people had a great time without any violence? These artists and venues do what is necessary to create entertainment in a way that doesn't end with people getting shot or stabbed. It's a novel idea, isn't it?

eastside
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Postby eastside » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:03 pm

However, do you think the management can be some sort of mind readers? A bar fight can't suddenly happen? You haven't seen many bar fights have you? It's quite easy to suddenly have a large disturbance. One guy picks a fight with some other guy. Both guys have a handful of friends nearby who all jump in on the brawl. Well now you suddenly have a large disturbance.


Madison has had one of the lowest crime rates in the country for long time. I'm thrilled with that. It is part of the reason I live in this community. Given the amount of time (well over a decade) I have spent as a DJ, musician, promoter, and fan, I have seen shockingly few bar fights. I have seen about one every five years. That's the way it is supposed to work. If you can expect a fight at your venue, you are an irresponsible owner by definition.

eastside
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Postby eastside » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:20 pm

By a quick look at the Isthmus, there were around 100 shows in Madison last weekend. A look at the Madison Police Departments press releases doesn't reveal problems at any place other than the Majestic. Violence is, and is supposed to be, the rare exception. Regular violence assoiciated with a club is pathetic, given the vast number of people and venues that avoid it every weekend. I am a harsh critic of the police but people who want the buck to stop there in the instance are misguided.

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Postby supaunknown » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:35 pm

I could count on two hands the total number of bar fights I've witnessed in my entire life of living in Madison (and being a tiny part of the local music scene). This is a vibrant little city filled with all sorts of cool freaky people. Obviously things are getting out of hand in front of the Majestic during weekends. It ain't the music, nor the club's fault, it's the thugs on the street and the seemingly inept, slow-to-react MPD. How did things get so far gone, daddy? When did "mob rules" take effect? For the past few years it seems this city's leaders and police department have no idea how to handle large, potentially unruly crowds - it's either passive non-reaction (Majestic), or a giant stormtroopin' show of inhuman militaristic force (Halloween).
Last edited by supaunknown on Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby dave esmond » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:43 pm

eastside wrote:......but I think it's pathetic that you look to all of these solutions except the obvious one that stands with the establishment that has the most control over the situation.



I guess I'm stupid. What's the obvoious solution the Majetic should have taken to stop someone, who may or may not have been in the Majestic at some point from going around the corner and stabbing someone in front of the Great Dane?

eastside
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Postby eastside » Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:32 pm

supaunknown wrote:I could count on two hands the total number of bar fights I've witnessed in my entire life of living in Madison (and being a tiny part of the local music scene). This is a vibrant little city filled with all sorts of cool freaky people. Obviously things are getting out of hand in front of the Majestic during weekends. It ain't the music, nor the club's fault, it's the thugs on the street and the seemingly inept, slow-to-react MPD. How did things get so far gone, daddy? When did "mob rules" take effect? For the past few years it seems this city's leaders and police department have no idea how to handle large, potentially unruly crowds - it's either passive non-reaction (Majestic), or a giant stormtroopin' show of inhuman militaristic force (Halloween).


Good points on the MPD.

eastside
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Postby eastside » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:42 pm

dave esmond wrote:
eastside wrote:......but I think it's pathetic that you look to all of these solutions except the obvious one that stands with the establishment that has the most control over the situation.



I guess I'm stupid. What's the obvoious solution the Majetic should have taken to stop someone, who may or may not have been in the Majestic at some point from going around the corner and stabbing someone in front of the Great Dane?


Do you think there's a problem on King Street? I could be wrong, but I don't think someone ran out of there $400,000 condo and stabbed someone coming out of the Opus. According to the police reports, 400-500 people are coming out of the Majestic and hanging around on the street at 2:30 in the morning. From the posters on this and the other board, people are unable to get into the Majestic and are hanging out on the street causing problems.

The same number of people were going to the Majestic when it opened without these problems. They have significantly changed there marketing strategy and it is impacting the neighborhood. The MPD is obviously also failing but would the same thing happen with the same number of cops on the street without that crowd?

What's our option? 30 cops on the street in that neighborhood? I don't want to pay for that. I don't want to go out to the bars and have to deal with all of those cops either. I have organized a lot of shows and you control your crowd and it's impact by the way you market and run the event. You can encourage or discourage people from hanging around after the event.

There were a lot of nights where I didn't want to stop and people didn't want to go home and it takes work to get people out of the area. You need to work with the staff and your friends in the bar to get people moving. You need to know the people at your event and work with them to avoid problems. You need to tell people where the afterbar is. When you need to hire cops, you hire cops.

If you know your customers and they respect you, they won't mess around and bring trouble to your venue and the neighborhood. How can you stop people from doing stupid things after they have left your event? If you know them, you walk out and ask them to leave. If you don't know them, you get to know them. For the thugs who just want to cause trouble, you make your event unappealing to them and make it clear that you won't tolerate them. You use the people you know to keep things under control inside and outside the club. Otherwise you can simply let 500 pumped up and drunk strangers out on the street at the same time and let the cops sort it out.

So, you're right, I don't know that the stabbing or the two shootings were associated with the Majestic. I do know that the club is dumping a ton of drunks on the street at bar time who are creating a dangerous situation. I've kept all of my shows 100% violence free and that is the standard that just about every venue in Madison maintains. I have a hard time with the idea that a club's resposibility completely ends at the door.

Ruggedman
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Postby Ruggedman » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:50 pm

Do you think there's a problem on King Street? I could be wrong, but I don't think someone ran out of there $400,000 condo and stabbed someone coming out of the Opus. According to the police reports, 400-500 people are coming out of the Majestic and hanging around on the street at 2:30 in the morning. From the posters on this and the other board, people are unable to get into the Majestic and are hanging out on the street causing problems.

WORD!!!

spanky
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Postby spanky » Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:53 pm

At this point I hope the Majestic continues to turn a blind eye, and continues to exemplify the mantra of the likes Dave Esmond. The longer they continue to deny that they are a factor in this problem the more likely they are to get a swift and heavy handed solution from City officials on the ALRC.


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