Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

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fflambeau
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Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby fflambeau » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:05 am

4 dead. Guns are simply too easy to get, and the GOP wants to allow people to carry them onto buses, into schools etc. It's crazy!

The people who are behind these easy guns laws have blood on their hands, not that that bothers them.

Shorty
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Shorty » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:05 am

Nice to see you posting about something other than Trump, but there was already a thread for this topic. viewtopic.php?f=37&t=65670

Gentle Man
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Gentle Man » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:07 pm

fflambeau wrote:4 dead. Guns are simply too easy to get, and the GOP wants to allow people to carry them onto buses, into schools etc. It's crazy!

The people who are behind these easy guns laws have blood on their hands, not that that bothers them.


The law that prevents Madison and other cities from continuing to prevent people from bringing guns on public buses was passed in '95, and if you look at the legislative record it had pretty strong support among Democrats too. Some provisions of the concealed carry bill and subsequent legislation just added strength to the court's opinion that Madison's practice was illegal, but the prohibition would have fallen just on the basis of the 1995 legislation. The concealed carry bill had support from among Democratic legislators too. During debate one Democrat stated, that while he would vote against the bill, he planned to take advantage of concealed carry once it passed. That's pretty weak opposition.

I don't know what source of information you have for legislation that in the works, but I haven't heard of any that allows guns inside schools unless a the local school board approves it--- which of course is an option they already have. I am sure that this year we will see legislation that will allow a licensee to drive into the school parking lot to drop off and pick up kids without the current need to unload and encase the gun before doing so. Allowing one to do so is commonsense and in the interest of safety. Common sense informs us that nobody on the school grounds is made safer by the current law, and probably there's less safety from the current law because it requires otherwise unnecessary gun handling.

In another thread, Henry mentioned Anders Breivik, the Norwegian who shot and killed 69 people. He obtained his firearms lawfully under the much stricter gun laws of Norway. Before you continue to be critical of what you consider to be lax gun laws in the USA, why not take time out to look at Norways laws and tell us how the stricter laws there prevented a person who was determined to harm others from obtaining a gun to commit his crimes. Guns are available everywhere in the world, regardless of the laws that are in effect. If you want fewer shootings then you need to address the actual causes of them, namely, lapses in mental health treatment and failure to identify people who's mental health issues are such that they shouldn't have guns, how children are raised (e.g., in an atmosphere of bullying, or with glorification of gang and other criminal activities), poverty, education, domestic abuse, suicide prevention, work environments, and other social issues. Most importantly, reform of a judicial system that puts individuals with a violent criminal history back on the street in a short time. If you follow the local news much you'll notice a lot of recent instances of people who are in unlawful possession of a firearm. That means in most instances, felons. If a person's legal history is such that they are considered too dangerous to have a gun, then they should not be walking the streets. Most of the blood to which you refer is on the hands of the prosecutors and judges who allow this to happen.

The One
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby The One » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:33 pm

fflambeau wrote:4 dead. Guns are simply too easy to get, and the GOP wants to allow people to carry them onto buses, into schools etc. It's crazy!

The people who are behind these easy guns laws have blood on their hands, not that that bothers them.

Much like car and knife makers have blood on their hands in London.

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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Cadfael » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:47 pm

The One wrote:
fflambeau wrote:4 dead. Guns are simply too easy to get, and the GOP wants to allow people to carry them onto buses, into schools etc. It's crazy!

The people who are behind these easy guns laws have blood on their hands, not that that bothers them.

Much like car and knife makers have blood on their hands in London.

Yes, the thousands of people killed by toddlers with cars and knives is a global disgrace.

Yeah I know the Wausau shootings are not an example of that. I just like carrying the analogy to its logical conclusion.

Gentle Man
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Gentle Man » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:48 pm

The One wrote:
fflambeau wrote:4 dead. Guns are simply too easy to get, and the GOP wants to allow people to carry them onto buses, into schools etc. It's crazy!

The people who are behind these easy guns laws have blood on their hands, not that that bothers them.

Much like car and knife makers have blood on their hands in London.


Speaking of, the carrying of knives is subject to a considerable amount of regulation in the UK. Clearly it's a huge success.

And with vehicles increasingly becoming a popular weapon of choice, perhaps they should requiring licensing of drivers. No, wait...

Gentle Man
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Gentle Man » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:54 pm

Cadfael wrote:Yes, the thousands of people killed by toddlers with cars and knives is a global disgrace.

Yeah I know the Wausau shootings are not an example of that. I just like carrying the analogy to its logical conclusion.


Or it's illogical one. 2015, the horrible year of toddlers with guns, involved 15 deaths. So your insinuation that thousands are dying because of toddlers with guns is a nice try at deceit.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:03 pm

In many cases the senseless firearm killings are committed by adults who suffer from schizophrenia. And that will become more of a problem since the NRA pushed Trump into overturning Obama's attempt to limit their possession by the seriously mentally ill.

Cadfael
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Cadfael » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:23 pm

Gentle Man wrote:
Cadfael wrote:Yes, the thousands of people killed by toddlers with cars and knives is a global disgrace.

Yeah I know the Wausau shootings are not an example of that. I just like carrying the analogy to its logical conclusion.


Or it's illogical one. 2015, the horrible year of toddlers with guns, involved 15 deaths. So your insinuation that thousands are dying because of toddlers with guns is a nice try at deceit.

Sorry, my bad.
Image
So I should have written
The dozens of toddlers that have killed themselves or killed or wounded other people with cars and knives is a global disgrace.

It's better than the terrorists have done in the US, but it definitely isn't thousands, and thanks much to Dman for doing exactly what he was expected to do.

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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:32 pm

Planes killed 3,000 people in lower Manhattan.

Ned Flounders
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:54 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Planes killed 3,000 people in lower Manhattan.

And your party's health-care destruction bill will kill 3,000 people nationwide every 6 weeks or so, year after year. If it passes, which God willing it won't.

Amazing, isn't it?

gargantua
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby gargantua » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:31 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Planes killed 3,000 people in lower Manhattan.

You are really bad at propaganda. You're blaming planes? And not every single follower of a religious belief bastardized by the people who took over the planes?
You're off your game dude. Hope it isn't trouble at home.

Gentle Man
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Gentle Man » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:00 am

Henry Vilas wrote:In many cases the senseless firearm killings are committed by adults who suffer from schizophrenia. And that will become more of a problem since the NRA pushed Trump into overturning Obama's attempt to limit their possession by the seriously mentally ill.


Not really. First of all, the NRA may have urged overthrowing Obama's rule, but so did the ACLU. "Seriously mentally ill?" Obama's order empowered the Social Security Administration to decide whether people receiving benefits could possess firearms based on whether they needed help managing their finances. Help managing your finances is hardly what most people consider as "seriously mentally ill." A judge who finds a person mentally incompetent can order no possession of firearms by that individual. That's due process. That person has representation in court and the court weighs the evidence presented under the rules of evidence. That's a big difference from SSA bureaucrats issuing blanket prohibitions and people having to decide whether to give up their right to have a gun or their disability or SSI benefits. Due process is turned on it's head when people are given a blanket denial of a right bureaucratically and then told to go to court to have the right restored. Another example of that would be the denial of a citizen's right to purchase a firearm simply because their name is on the secret no-fly list. Nobody says how that list is made, nobody even knows if they are on the list until they try to board a flight.

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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:04 am

Image

Henry Vilas
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Re: Blood on Their Hands= Wausau Shootings

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:38 am

A person that is incompetent to handle a checkbook should be allowed to handle a gun? I suppose a gun is easier to fire than it is to balance a checking account.

Gun rights advocates say that limiting their rights isn't the solution, but doing something about the mentally ill should be the approach. So GMan, what should be done? Nothing isn't the answer.


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