#Resist Meetups

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Shorty
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#Resist Meetups

Postby Shorty » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:41 pm

Meetup is starting groups Nationwide and in some other countries to Resist and promote democracy. Interesting they feel the need to do this. So far here are some local member counts:

Chicago - 131
Madison - 90
Milw - 82
Waukesha - 22
Appleton - 20
Kenosha - 16
GB - 15
LaCrosse - 11
Rockford - 8
Racine - 7

I don't think meetup groups in general are popular in Milw from what I've seen.

https://www.meetup.com/pro/resist/

"Concerned about where things are heading? You're not alone. Join others who care about what’s happening to democracy, human rights, social justice, equality, sustainability, and other issues in your area. It’s ok if you’ve never been to a protest, march, or town hall—start here. You really can make a difference."

Henry Vilas
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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:43 pm

Good point. I try to resist going to meetups every chance I get.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Igor » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:44 pm

Drinking. In Wisconsin it is called drinking.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:11 am

It’s ok if you’ve never been to a protest, march, or town hall—start here. You really can make a difference."


Because these strategies have worked so well in Wisconsin the last 7 years, by all means let's continue to focus our energy on them! The power of costumes and clever signs should never be underestimated.

Former Mayor Dave gets it: http://isthmus.com/opinion/opinion/prot ... al-causes/

Shorty
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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Shorty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:35 am

Even if they aren't effective, they can certainly make the protesters feel good. And it's a way to meet people who share your views. What is the alternative? Sit around and do nothing? Make forum posts?

Henry Vilas wrote:Good point. I try to resist going to meetups every chance I get.

Why? Do you not like meeting fellow Madison residents? How do you make friends here? What do you do for socializing? Or do you just sit in front of your PC most of the week posting here?

Shorty
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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Shorty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:39 am

narcoleptish wrote:Former Mayor Dave gets it: http://isthmus.com/opinion/opinion/prot ... al-causes/


"And when one of those protesters finally reached the presidency in 1992, he declared the end to welfare as we know it and he famously said that the era of big government was over. Then, when his wife and fellow protester Hillary Clinton ran for the same office, she was defeated by a conservative populist authoritarian.
The track record of marching protest is not so good."

So does Dave think a Dem who didn't protest would do better? Are there any Dem's who don't attend protests? What was Dave doing in the 60's?

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:23 am

Shorty wrote:Do you not like meeting fellow Madison residents? How do you make friends here? What do you do for socializing? Or do you just sit in front of your PC most of the week posting here?

I've lived in Madison for over 50 years and I have never needed meetups to make friends. But that's just me (and not you).

Shorty
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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Shorty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:44 am

You still didn't answer how you make friends here. And why you dislike meetups.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:56 am

In the real world, I am very gregarious and have no trouble conversing with people. I'm still friends with college buddies who live around Madison, as well as former work colleagues that I met in 30 years of teaching. I've lived in the same house since 1984 and have becomes friends with neighbors. I've been married for 40 years and have become friends with some of my wife's friends. I'm in my late 60s and don't need meetups. To me, they reek of desperation.

But to each, their own.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby nonyuppie » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:30 pm

Shorty wrote:So does Dave think a Dem who didn't protest would do better? Are there any Dem's who don't attend protests? What was Dave doing in the 60's?


How about politicians who stuck to the principles they protested for and didn't throw those principles out when it became politically expedient?
Last edited by nonyuppie on Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:59 pm

Shorty wrote:
narcoleptish wrote:Former Mayor Dave gets it: http://isthmus.com/opinion/opinion/prot ... al-causes/


"And when one of those protesters finally reached the presidency in 1992, he declared the end to welfare as we know it and he famously said that the era of big government was over. Then, when his wife and fellow protester Hillary Clinton ran for the same office, she was defeated by a conservative populist authoritarian.
The track record of marching protest is not so good."

So does Dave think a Dem who didn't protest would do better? Are there any Dem's who don't attend protests? What was Dave doing in the 60's?


I felt that was the least pertinent paragraph in the article.

Part of the problem could be that protests are inherently about rallying the true believers, not about expanding the base. And in rallying the faithful, the preaching tends to get more heated and one-sided, which can actually serve to turn off swing voters.


Whereas this is what I've felt too many people don't get. Rural swing-voters and probably some formerly solid democrats are tired of seeing people in Madison who seemingly have all the time in the world to protest, dress up in costumes, and sing in the Capitol, while they're struggling to make ends meet in our economically challenged small towns.

At the heart of the Democrats’ problem is their desire to parse up the electorate into interest groups with unique agendas based on race, gender or sexual orientation. What gets lost in that is a common, overarching message. Worse, it does not go unnoticed that less-educated white folks who are not union members get left out of the litany in the Democratic liturgy. The great project of Democrats and liberals needs to be to win back blue-collar voters, some in rural areas. Identity politics just does not help that cause.

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby PaleoLiberal » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:04 pm

Lots of good stuff, and I agree with SOME of it, maybe MOST of it.

What I do NOT agree with: protests are useless or counterproductive. I think many, perhaps MOST are useless, and some are counterproductive, but some are useful. I think, for example, that the protests and non-violent civil disobedience by Mohandas Gandhi and M.L. King helped considerably with the causes of Indian independence and civil rights respectively.

The Act 10 protests may have done some good. They did get a few GOP State Reps out of office in recall elections. I have NO way of knowing if they did more harm than good. Perhaps if the Democrats had been able to come up with decent candidates in the recall or 2014 elections, then we would be talking about how successful the Act 10 protests were.


What I agree with -- destructive protests, divisive protests, and mere attention seeking are counterproductive.

Examples --
I believe the riots of 1968 got Richard Nixon into office. That includes the post MLK assassination riots that burned down inner cities all over the US; the Chicago riots, and other anti-war riots.

I think the often noisy and sometimes violent anti-Trump protests were what turned Trump into a viable candidate.
I think that those protests, plus some violent BLM riots, helped put Trump into office.

I think the "antifa" movement plays right into the hands of the right wing. For example, they protested attention whores at UCB and NYU. The effect was to give tons of publicity to people whose livelihoods depend on getting violent reactions from the "black blocs". They also discourage peaceful lefties from participating in events that could turn violent because the children of antifa want to smash and burn. (I took a look at the Madison antifa web page recently. It really was at a children's level of maturity, complete with My Little Pony. I am not making this up.)

I didn't like the Women's March because I found it divisive. One of my kids regretted not going, and she pointed out that I had marched in an ERA rally in Little Rock when I was college age. True, I did. But the ERA folks in Arkansas tried to be as inclusive as possible. My mother is a fairly well-known Arkansas feminist, and she tried to get the conservative stay-at-home-moms to back the ERA. OTOH, the Women's March gave a long list of what are the currently fashionable lefty causes, and I greatly disagree with some of them. I support equal rights for women, but that doesn't mean I support massive immigration of people from countries that repress women, for example.

I think that Identity Politics is destroying our democracy.
As Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore said: In multiracial societies, you don't vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion.

A number of people, including M.L. King, Jesse Jackson and Bernie Sanders have, at times, tried to come up with multi-racial coalitions, but none succeeded. Could ML King's poor person's coalition have worked? We don't know. I do know that the minute some BLM folks broke up a Bernie Sanders rally, he was doomed.

So, what can be done?

We need to come up with a real coalition based on being American, rather than identity.

If limiting immigration would be better for the working people of this country, but it would offend certain ethnic groups, can those ethnic groups put aside group solidarity in favor of American solidarity?

Can working whites, working blacks, working Latinos, working Asians, working Native Americans, etc. get beyond race to work together? I don't know. For example, I see cases of taxi unions in NYC that are trying to exclude non-Muslims.

I don't have an answer. All I know is the combination of identity politics and destructive protests, combined with the very real negative effects of globalization (including mass immigration) on working people led to Trump.

The way to fight Trump is not more of the same.

Shorty
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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Shorty » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:24 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Whereas this is what I've felt too many people don't get. Rural swing-voters and probably some formerly solid democrats are tired of seeing people in Madison who seemingly have all the time in the world to protest, dress up in costumes, and sing in the Capitol, while they're struggling to make ends meet in our economically challenged small towns.

I disagree. I bet they are glad to see people protesting on their behalf in Madison. All the time in the world? The sing along is just one hour during lunch hour, and not many attend. Many that do attend are retired, unemployed, or part-time employees. Big ones like the women's march are on a weekend for an hour or two. Dress up in costumes? Only for Halloween.

Also, there are protests outside Madison, like this one:

March Against Pipeline Expansion
Saturday, March 4 at 2 PM - 5 PM
Whitewater, Wisconsin


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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Comrade » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Shorty wrote:Meetup is starting groups Nationwide and in some other countries to Resist and promote democracy. Interesting they feel the need to do this. So far here are some local member counts:

Chicago - 131
Madison - 90
Milw - 82
Waukesha - 22
Appleton - 20
Kenosha - 16
GB - 15
LaCrosse - 11
Rockford - 8
Racine - 7

I don't think meetup groups in general are popular in Milw from what I've seen.

https://www.meetup.com/pro/resist/

"Concerned about where things are heading? You're not alone. Join others who care about what’s happening to democracy, human rights, social justice, equality, sustainability, and other issues in your area. It’s ok if you’ve never been to a protest, march, or town hall—start here. You really can make a difference."


From the first sentence---"to resist and promote democracy".....

How does one simultaneously resist AND promote something?

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Re: #Resist Meetups

Postby Zoti Bemba » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:06 pm

narcoleptish wrote:
Part of the problem could be that protests are inherently about rallying the true believers, not about expanding the base. And in rallying the faithful, the preaching tends to get more heated and one-sided, which can actually serve to turn off swing voters.


Whereas this is what I've felt too many people don't get. Rural swing-voters and probably some formerly solid democrats are tired of seeing people in Madison who seemingly have all the time in the world to protest, dress up in costumes, and sing in the Capitol, while they're struggling to make ends meet in our economically challenged small towns.

At the heart of the Democrats’ problem is their desire to parse up the electorate into interest groups with unique agendas based on race, gender or sexual orientation. What gets lost in that is a common, overarching message. Worse, it does not go unnoticed that less-educated white folks who are not union members get left out of the litany in the Democratic liturgy. The great project of Democrats and liberals needs to be to win back blue-collar voters, some in rural areas. Identity politics just does not help that cause.


The woman from Boscobel I chatted with as we marched, slowly, up State Street put in a lot more time and effort to be there than I did. She didn't know Madison well and had never been to a protest before, but she felt she had to go to this one, for her daughter (who, ironically, chose to stay home). We had an interesting hour-and-a-half long chat, found a lot of common ground. She stuck around to hear the last of the speeches, which were a bit of the same-old, same-old to my ear. But the speeches weren't the important part, IMO. I hovered and walked her back down State Street, bought her a cup of coffee and made sure headed in the right direction to get back to her car. Because she was the important part of the march.

Politico's like ex-Mayor Dave seem to find that notion easy to miss. Who the hell cares what the national organizing committee was fighting about? We were there to get together and march, get out there, stand up and say, "We care about these things!" [widely varied yet strangely consistent list to follow] The speeches were just a minor detail this time, a reason to go from here to there, to finally reach the Capitol (where, I noticed, many just turned around and left). This march really was about the march and the marchers -- every single unique one of them who just felt, for whatever reason or no reason, they had to show up and represent. If ex-Mayor Dave were able to understand that he might not be "ex-".


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