Walkergate: It's Getting Real

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DCB
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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby DCB » Tue Dec 27, 2016 1:31 pm

Roy wrote:
PaleoLiberal wrote:With Republicans controlling all 3 branches of the state government, and soon all 3 branches of the federal government, don't expect any real examination of Republican wrongdoing. Republicans don't investigate Republicans. They only investigate Democrats.

Ah, like this administrations refusal to look at IRS scandal, gun running, Clinton corruption, voter fraud, etc etc. Lets be honest. Democrats only want to investigate Republicans, and Republicans only want to investigate Democrats.

A classic "I know you are but what am I?" defense - refusing to address the issue at hand, by shifting the discussion to your opponent.

Its probably a mistake to engage, but its worth pointing out, again, that "voter fraud" is largely a myth.

Getting back to the original issue, is there any evidence that the Walker campaign violated campaign finance laws? I think a check that says "because Scott Walker asked me" counts as evidence.

Neade
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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby Neade » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:27 pm

Is 2017 the year that this gets "real"?

Just checking. Need to update some information if this is the case. Wouldn't want to miss how real it gets when it does, in actuality, get that way. Real is of which I speak, of course, and how it may or may not be getting.

DCB
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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby DCB » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:27 pm

The scandal, Walkergate, is very real. Now that the John Doe docs have been leaked, we know for certain that the Walker campaign coordinated with AFP, which is illegal.

We also know that there will be absolutely no consequences for this illegal activity. This is the very real consequence of Walkergate.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:57 pm

DCB wrote:The scandal, Walkergate, is very real. Now that the John Doe docs have been leaked, we know for certain that the Walker campaign coordinated with AFP, which is illegal.

The conservatives on this board argue that the coordination is not illegal, as it is corporate free speech. They also argue that Wisconsin's public university is teaching courses that aren't constitutionally protected under the First.
Last edited by Henry Vilas on Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Madsci
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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby Madsci » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:31 pm

It's getting real = The new "facts" of life

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:27 pm

AG Schimel wants to keep other things secret from the public.

The Wisconsin Supreme Court says the state Department of Justice doesn't have to release videos featuring Republican Attorney General Brad Schimel speaking at training seminars.


(Not) so much for open government.

DCB
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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby DCB » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:10 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
DCB wrote:The scandal, Walkergate, is very real. Now that the John Doe docs have been leaked, we know for certain that the Walker campaign coordinated with AFP, which is illegal.

The conservatives on this board argue that the coordination is not illegal, as it is corporate free speech.

They really should be cheering for the case to to continue. Given the current climate, its very likely that the WI campaign finance laws that Walker violated would be found unconstitutional, once and for all.

But until the fat lady (SCOTUS) sings, its still a debatable question.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby you must be joking » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:09 am

DCB wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
DCB wrote:The scandal, Walkergate, is very real. Now that the John Doe docs have been leaked, we know for certain that the Walker campaign coordinated with AFP, which is illegal.

The conservatives on this board argue that the coordination is not illegal, as it is corporate free speech.

They really should be cheering for the case to to continue. Given the current climate, its very likely that the WI campaign finance laws that Walker violated would be found unconstitutional, once and for all.

But until the fat lady (SCOTUS) sings, its still a debatable question.


DCB,

Geez you people are dense. It has already been decided way, way, back in 2010. It's called the "Citizens United" decision.

Get it. Got it. Good!

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby gargantua » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:33 am

No.
You obviously don't understand Citizens United.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:38 am

CEOs United restores the "Taxation without representation" we fought the Revolutionary War to get away from.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby you must be joking » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:41 am

jonnygothispen wrote:CEOs United restores the "Taxation without representation" we fought the Revolutionary War to get away from.


No jonny,

"Taxation without representation" is an overbloated government meddling in the everyday affairs of the people. It is a government that makes laws that are so complex that not even those in government can understand them. It is federal departments writing and enforcing laws that have not been voted on by Congress. Even though Congress voted on the law, can anyone really understand Obama care for example? All 2,700 pages of the initial law and the some 17,000+ pages of regulations that come with it? Did Congress vote on all 17,000+ pages of regulations that came after the law was voted on? It is now the tyranny of the masses by the few who rule not from "across the pond" but from "across the Potomac".

The question now is: How can we be a free people when the laws are so many and so complex. Do you know that there are some 5,000 federal laws that if you break them you could be put in jail for. These laws do not include numerous federal regulations that could also send you to jail. People are now being sent to jail for breaking laws they didn't even know existed.

People are now jailed because some prosecutor has a "legal theory" that says that person broke the law.

I would submit to you that if the laws were few, very clear and easy to understand we would not have had the John Doe investigation in the State of Wisconsin.

The people we put in government are our "servants" not our masters. In order for us to live as free citizens we must all know the laws, which means they must be few and simple to understand.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:26 am

Good pints, but you're forgetting something. Business runs government, so that's what it represents now, which brings it back to my point.

P.S. Business also owns the media, which they skillfully use to create the straw man of blaming government for the very policies businesses put in place with the politicians they own.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby snoqueen » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:36 am

I love the idea the public is so dumb we should only have a few, easy laws.

This is just crypto anarchism in a new suit, same as those well dressed white guys talking about the greatness of European culture are still white supremacists.

In addition, it's a defense of poor education and missing skills of critical thinking. Why would anyone prefer that? Given half a chance, people are in general smart and quite able to sort out and leverage laws and regulations to their own advantage. We need to write the laws thoughtfully and well so they benefit as many as possible, not just give up on the legal system and go back to arbitrary governance by fear and force.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby jman111 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:06 pm

snoqueen wrote:We need to write the laws thoughtfully and well so they benefit as many as possible, not just give up on the legal system and go back to arbitrary governance by fear and force.

We'll never Make America Great Again with thinking like that.

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Re: Walkergate: It's Getting Real

Postby you must be joking » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:16 am

snoqueen wrote:I love the idea the public is so dumb we should only have a few, easy laws.

This is just crypto anarchism in a new suit, same as those well dressed white guys talking about the greatness of European culture are still white supremacists.

In addition, it's a defense of poor education and missing skills of critical thinking. Why would anyone prefer that? Given half a chance, people are in general smart and quite able to sort out and leverage laws and regulations to their own advantage. We need to write the laws thoughtfully and well so they benefit as many as possible, not just give up on the legal system and go back to arbitrary governance by fear and force.


Snoqueen,

No, the public shouldn't be dumb, that is part of the problem. The problem with complex laws is that no one can understand them let along comply or enforce them properly. Common sense has been taken out of the equation. Take for example this from Snopes about a man who owned land on which some beavers decided to build a dam. The State of Michigan threatened to fine the man 10,000 a day for the dam. http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.asp

Aside from his response to the state being very funny, there was no reason for the threat of action by the state in the first place. There are similar situations that take place all over the country when it comes to land use. A rancher out in Wyoming got the proper permits from the State of Wyoming to divert part of a stream for a pond. The EPA said that he could not and threatened him with 16 million dollars in fines. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/us/regulatory-war-fought-over-a-wyoming-familys-pond.html?_r=0

Over 100,000 people in the interior of Alaska are now being told by the EPA that they cannot burn wood to keep warm as it creates too much particulate matter. https://thefederalist.com/2016/12/30/epa-alaskans-sub-zero-temps-stop-burning-wood-keep-warm/

The list goes on.

That is why the laws should be few and simple to understand. You are either in compliance or you are not. You the citizen of the U.S. and the State of Wisconsin should know the laws and be able to understand them.

Again, this is why we had John Doe in Wisconsin. The law was not clear. Some people got away with doing the same thing or worse than others who got prosecuted.


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