Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

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MB3
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby MB3 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:16 am

The most oppressive and murderous governments in human history would be on-board with Freedom from Religion. Stalin and Mao would be proud of you guys.

More people have been killed by anti-religious governments just in the last 100 years than by all other wars combined.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:30 pm

MB3 wrote:More people have been killed by anti-religious governments just in the last 100 years than by all other wars combined.

Link, please.

Detritus
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Detritus » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:04 pm

MB3 wrote:The most oppressive and murderous governments in human history would be on-board with Freedom from Religion. Stalin and Mao would be proud of you guys.

Removing Bibles from publicly funded hotel rooms being exactly equivalent to murder....

Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:51 pm

Detritus wrote:
MB3 wrote:The most oppressive and murderous governments in human history would be on-board with Freedom from Religion. Stalin and Mao would be proud of you guys.

Removing Bibles from publicly funded hotel rooms being exactly equivalent to murder....
Right. Not to mention that there's a huge difference between a government being secular while securing freedom of religion for all and a government outlawing religion and punishing anyone who practices it.

Also: No, MB3, your assessment of the murders committed by the non-religious vs. the religious is ridiculously wrong. As I stated up thread, the total number of people murdered by Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot comes out to something like 15-20 million, whereas the number of murders committed in the name of religion throughout history is hundreds of millions. So even if you throw Mao in there, the non-religious would have a lot of catching up to do. Repeating lies does not make them true.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:24 am

The FFRF is going after Green Bay's mayor for inviting to pope to tour a local Catholic shrine.

The group is protesting an invitation from Jim Schmitt, the mayor of Green Bay, to Pope Francis to visit northeast Wisconsin -- which is home to the only approved Marian apparition site in the United States, the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help in Champion. The shrine is located about 15 miles north of Green Bay.

Schmitt's letter inviting the Pope Francis to make a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help was written in his official capacity as mayor on City of Green Bay letter, FFRF noted, and was signed "Your servant in Christ."

"You were not elected bishop of Green Bay," FFRF Co-Presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor wrote in their March 10 letter to Schmitt.

wack wack
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby wack wack » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:38 am

I think the sig is an issue, but the shrine is a local treasure with significance to the invited, I don't have a problem with an invitation from the area's mayor.

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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:08 pm

Now here is somehthng the FFRF should weigh in on.

James Doty, who among other things was the land developer who created the City of Madison. He gave the Catholic Church the land on which their cathedral used to sit, with a deed restriction that it had to be used for their religious misson. Since the church burned down, the plot has laid fallow. The City now wants to collect property taxes on that valuable piece of real estate. The Church objects. Thus the present conundrum.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:35 pm

The next battle for FFRF is over "In God We Trust" license plates.

Republicans in the Wisconsin Legislature are pushing for this because they want to make sure that religious right voters will show up at the polls. Helps with campaign donations too.

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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:08 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The next battle for FFRF is over "In God We Trust" license plates.

Republicans in the Wisconsin Legislature are pushing for this because they want to make sure that religious right voters will show up at the polls. Helps with campaign donations too.


I'm not sure FFRF is dumb for wasting money on a case they will probably lose, or dumb for giving this any publicity at all. Probably both.

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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:52 pm

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
- George Washington

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

"Christian establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
- James Madison

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, then that of blindfolded fear.”

“Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity.”

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
- Thomas Paine

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people build a wall of separation between Church & State."
- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby gozer » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:44 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The next battle for FFRF is over "In God We Trust" license plates.

Republicans in the Wisconsin Legislature are pushing for this because they want to make sure that religious right voters will show up at the polls. Helps with campaign donations too.


they should just offer them as part of a series:

i want a plate that says "in morphine we trust"

Henry Vilas
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:39 pm

Since Walker and the other Wisconsin GOPers say that our state is "open for business," maybe the plate should read: In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash.

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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Gregory_the_Great » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:10 am

Henry Vilas wrote:The FFRF is going after Green Bay's mayor for inviting to pope to tour a local Catholic shrine.

The group is protesting an invitation from Jim Schmitt, the mayor of Green Bay, to Pope Francis to visit northeast Wisconsin -- which is home to the only approved Marian apparition site in the United States, the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help in Champion. The shrine is located about 15 miles north of Green Bay.

Schmitt's letter inviting the Pope Francis to make a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help was written in his official capacity as mayor on City of Green Bay letter, FFRF noted, and was signed "Your servant in Christ."

"You were not elected bishop of Green Bay," FFRF Co-Presidents Dan Barker and Annie Laurie Gaylor wrote in their March 10 letter to Schmitt.


I'd rather we just not allow papists to run for office than force him to betray his conscience in the way they communicate with their "Holy Father."

Gregory_the_Great
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Gregory_the_Great » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:19 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Detritus wrote:
MB3 wrote:The most oppressive and murderous governments in human history would be on-board with Freedom from Religion. Stalin and Mao would be proud of you guys.

Removing Bibles from publicly funded hotel rooms being exactly equivalent to murder....
Right. Not to mention that there's a huge difference between a government being secular while securing freedom of religion for all and a government outlawing religion and punishing anyone who practices it.

Also: No, MB3, your assessment of the murders committed by the non-religious vs. the religious is ridiculously wrong. As I stated up thread, the total number of people murdered by Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot comes out to something like 15-20 million, whereas the number of murders committed in the name of religion throughout history is hundreds of millions. So even if you throw Mao in there, the non-religious would have a lot of catching up to do. Repeating lies does not make them true.


It doesn't seem like we really have a good argument here either way. Yes, wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll, is a woefully overused source, but as far as summaries go it seems to show that not only are the number different than we all presented, but the distinction between religious and communist/secular would be a hard one to make in many cases...Plus, I think we care more about the tragedies and bigotry of today than of the past anyway.

Gregory_the_Great
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Re: Viva Freedom From Religion Foundation!

Postby Gregory_the_Great » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:23 am



Haha, while this might be emotionally satisfying, I think there are better arguments against the Catholic Church than suggesting they should have used the "religious death penalty" against more people across history.


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