I'll continue to risk arrest

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john_titor
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby john_titor » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:46 pm

martimar123 wrote: Getting handcuffed, escorted to the basement of the Capitol, and appearing in court are frightening to me but I am more frightened about the future of my 6th generation grandchildren in a state which is unrecognizable to me.


I wrote out a long reply to this thread, but self-censored myself and deleted. I think you are brave. I am a coward.

Jattpw wrote: I just don't see why one more day of tickets matters.


What would happen if 3000 Wisconsin Grannies came and got arrested for singing or watching people sing? See any power to that?

jonnygothispen
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby jonnygothispen » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:22 pm

Jattpw wrote:I have to ask:

How would doing all the same activities but having a permit change what you are doing?
Asking the Walker administration for a permit to protest them is like asking asking a deer for a permit to hunt them...

bdog
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby bdog » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:39 pm

Why would a deer give out free permits to hunt it?

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby jonnygothispen » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 pm

bdog wrote:Why would a deer give out free permits to hunt it?
Apparently so. Tho some deer doth protest, the dear founders thought it wise...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


I just wanted to read it again myself to refresh... :)

It's interesting in a sense since Walker's protesting the protest using a bully force. It would be more interesting if the singers protested Walker the same way, hey?

bdog
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby bdog » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:59 pm

So it's Congress that is issuing the deer hunting permits?

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby wesconsin » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:46 am

So what is it going to take for this madness to end?

If we are protesting and not only are the authorities not caring about what we are concerned about, but they are forcibly removing protests.... what is our next channel to get things taken care of? Who needs to step in or what needs to happen? People are getting abused and arrested, and yet nothing happens, nothing is moving forward. Does the President care? Does either the House or the Senate care? Seriously, what are we supposed to do? Even if we do oblige and get permits - it will do nothing for the cause but weaken it. Do we just wait until Walker is out of office?

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:02 pm

wesconsin wrote:So what is it going to take for this madness to end?

If we are protesting and not only are the authorities not caring about what we are concerned about, but they are forcibly removing protests.... what is our next channel to get things taken care of? Who needs to step in or what needs to happen? People are getting abused and arrested, and yet nothing happens, nothing is moving forward. Does the President care? Does either the House or the Senate care? Seriously, what are we supposed to do? Even if we do oblige and get permits - it will do nothing for the cause but weaken it. Do we just wait until Walker is out of office?


Well what was the original goal of the Solidarity Singers? I as I understood it, it was a general protest against Walker and his policies, which given that he's been popularly elected twice now, probably wasn't going to gain much traction outside of Madison (Or effect any change in Walker's policies). Infact prior to the arrests it was probably only relevant to the those actually involved, and Dave Blaska.

Now it's a free speach/assembly issue getting good headlines because of the heavy handed tactics of the Capitol Police. The question of course is can the attention of the general public be held long enough to force a political change. Given the average American's attention span, I'm guessing (and the DOA may be hoping that) the general public looses interest soon. Which is fine, since ultimately this should have a legal solution anyway.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Zoti Bemba » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:36 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Well what was the original goal of the Solidarity Singers?


I'm sure everyone has their own answer to this question, but as I understand it the rock-bottom fundamental reason is to maintain a people's presence at the Capitol after the Act 10 protests died down. Nothing less, and not much more (at least, not as a group). Though opposition to Scott Walker and his policies is pretty much a given with SSA participants, it seems to me that lots of critics a make a (possibly intentional) mistake when they ask what specific thing the Singalong is protesting. The issues are beside the point. The point is to keep a space in the Capitol open for dissent. When the recall was in progress I remember hearing some discussion of keeping the Singalong going no matter who won. Elections don't nullify rights -- at least, they aren't supposed to -- and no politician is going to perfectly represent all their constituents on all matters all the time -- hence the right to petition.

Given the average American's attention span, I'm guessing (and the DOA may be hoping that) the general public looses interest soon. Which is fine, since ultimately this should have a legal solution anyway.


I'm not sure that the regulars at the Solidarity Singalong care much about the average American's attention span or interest. Though if you are bemoaning its limited and fickle nature, all the more reason to admire the SSA's collective achievement -- 600+, and still counting.

As for "legal solutions," the 4-person rule has already been shot down and the 20-person rule is now lined up in the lawyers' sights, along with (I hope) some truly atrocious behavior by the Capitol police. Bad rules and bad behavior don't get changed if no one stands up to challenge them, even if that challenge is just a by-product of a daily gathering to remind the powerful that they don't have power over everything or everybody. And to sing, which is also kind of fun.

bdog
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:46 pm

I think the SS needs to move to the library mall.

It would create a dichotomy against the current state of affairs at the Capitol. And it would open it up to additional support.

I don't think the current strategy is doing any good.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby snoqueen » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:11 pm

I think the singers and attenders take this to be a civil rights issue in the constitutional, right-to-assemble-and-petition first amendment sense.

If it's a civil rights issue, continuing to peacefully assemble and be arrested has a long and honorable history. I'm sure nobody would claim access to the Capitol is as earth-shaking as challenging Jim Crow laws in the 60s, but the fundamentals are the same: persistence and perseverence wins hearts and minds, and the government, it is hoped, will eventually follow.

The arrests play into that plan, and are not considered setbacks. Moving to Library Mall is entirely beside the point. The singers and attenders want open access to the Capitol so that they can address their elected officials. To (deliberately) misunderstand the symbolic significance of the venue is disingenuous.

I think the current strategy, on its own terms, is working better than anyone dreamed it would now that Chief Ervin has provided the drama needed to get media coverage once again.

Bad rules and bad behavior don't get changed if no one stands up to challenge them...


Exactly.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby bdog » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:28 pm

The point is, the SS, and anyone who opposes Gov. Walker, needs to be smart about it.

You don't want to hand the (recall) election over because the State electorate perceives you as n'er do wells.

If someone like Mary Burke wants to be Gov. I think the best strategy is to acknowledge what Walker has done right and then convince us what she would do better.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Detritus » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:19 pm

bdog wrote:If someone like Mary Burke wants to be Gov. I think the best strategy is to acknowledge what Walker has done right and then convince us what she would do better.

Some of us would be hard pressed to name a single thing Walker has done right. Moreover, even when he has done something right, it is usually when he has no other choice (the sportsmen's group thing, for example). That doesn't help his case either.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby SidSeven » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:53 pm

bdog wrote:Why would a deer give out free permits to hunt it?

Because the deer is essentially subsidized with taxpayer money.
When you control taxpayer money, you can do anything you can get away with, using our own money, like political, yet tax-exempt organizations...If blind deer have a powerful lobby to get legislation passed to allow them to carry concealed hunter permits, I for one cannot imagine any true American from denying them that right.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Bludgeon » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:19 pm

'Solidarity Singers'.
Image

I can never see or hear the difference.

This kinda singing is psycho-wacko. Like I am looking around the corner to make sure the rapture hasn't arrived. Yknow those two bums around the capitol that stand on each end and the one crazy lunatic is screaming "recall" at the top of his shrill little deranged voice, and the other guy is screaming "Walker", as loud as he can in response, and everybody goes about their lives like this is a normal community environment, but the truth is these shriekers are a bunch of hysterical evangelists, lost so deep in their dogma and their doctrine, they've lost all touch with the corporeal realm? That's not cool, either.

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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby pjbogart » Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:30 am

I think I mentioned when I talked about my one trip to the capitol that I pretty much felt like clocking the bum who was pacing the perimeter sporadically shrieking lines from the songs. He seemed unwelcome to me, like he had been told to stay out of the inner rotunda. He also seemed like he was suffering from some sort of anxiety issue, like the excitement of the protest caused him to lose control and do things that were socially unacceptable to the vast majority of people from either party.

Are you judging the entire group of protesters based upon the actions of that one individual?


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