Penokee Hills

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jman111
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby jman111 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:59 pm

Dipper wrote:Yeah, but again, some dumbass vandalism vs. permanent destruction of the environment isn't exactly a moral tossup.

Agreed, but when someone "estimates" inflated damage costs of the vandalism (like, oh, $7.5 mil), there will be an influence on public opinion.

Dipper
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Dipper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:50 pm

All this winking at gun law-breaking is very interesting in light of the news that our attorney general Van Hollen bought a weapon from an unlicensed dealer. Think the guy who sold the gun to him will ever be punished for breaking the law? Same thing with these unlicensed security firms. Does anyone doubt "Bulletproof" will get its license toot-sweet, without even a wrist slap?

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby FJD » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:02 pm

It seems like Bulletproof made an honest mistake and immediatly started working to rectify it, so yeah, I'd say they'll get licensed fairly quickly.

No gun law was broken though. Regulatory statues on private security firms and armed guards were violated, but standing around with openly displayed firearms isn't a violation of any gun law in Wisconsin.

Should the company face a fine for violating those statues? On their first offense, and when they acted quickly to correct the issue by removing their guards from duty, and filing for the required forms, my guess is any other security company would get a warning on their first offense too.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:07 pm

So a mining company from Florida hires a security firm from Arizona. So much for this creating jobs here. You would think they could at least find a local security firm.

http://www.bulletproofsecurities.com/se ... e_security

BPS will perform the necessary security assessments and design operational plans specifically for your site.


If they're so professional, how did they not know to get a license for the state. This has got to be pretty standard practice.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:13 pm

The more I have been reading about this company, the crazier I think it is. They're not a standard security company, but a pretty hard core para-military organization. From their website:

BPS holds a Federal Firearms License with the ATF. In addition we have an SOT and are a Class 2 weapons manufacturer. This means we can even build machine guns. We also have the ability to train and sell weapons to our clients.


I have no issue with this company hiring security, but is this really necessary?

FJD
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby FJD » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:27 pm

From their web site, I got the strong impression that these guys would be akin to Blackwater in terms of types of contracts they take. Being able to build a machine gun probably doesn't allow them to bring it with them on a contract inside the US. On the other hand being able to sell clients outside the US a machine gun, and train them on it's use is proably a good money maker for them.

I'm begining to wonder if these guys have some sort of exclusive agreement with GT, that precludes hiring a local Wisconsin company. Using them in this case seems like a bit of overkill.

As far as missing the licensing thing, it sounds like they went from being asked to provide guards to being on duty in 2 days. That's not a whole lot of time to get all your "T"s crossed and "I"s dotted. Lots of well respected companies screw up far worse with a lot more lead time.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Donald » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm

Many mining operations, even the big guys, hire out a lot of stuff, so they should be familiar with how they have to go about all this. (This is how they get around union organizing.) They slipped up with the security hiring, or, as, I suspect, these guys aren't very experienced, which is even worse. It's almost as if all these guys have is political capital and patsies in the Governor's office and Legislature.

In my experience a real tip off to an operation that's going to be troubled is when they whine about regulations. The mines with the least trouble understand regulation is there to protect them from risk and costs down the road.

Anyone know anything about the ownership of this operation? Many mines are owned by shell companies that contract with consultants, engineering firms and firms that specialize in earth moving operations. The company itself may not actually employ many people, so these may not be their employees they're protecting, but other company's people. And I'm sure their insurance company insisted on security as well.
Last edited by Donald on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dipper
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Dipper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:33 pm

If they're so professional, how did they not know to get a license for the state. This has got to be pretty standard practice.


Bingo. It's a little incredulous to believe they didn't know they had to get a permit (Kinda like WEDC not knowing they had to track the millions of dollars the state lent out). I mean, with all the legal liability involved, dontcha think they'd have lawyers to tell them to be sure to be licensed in the state?

Sorry, I don't forgive that kind of stupidity. None of us would ever get away with claiming a mulligan on that sort of violation.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:34 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Lots of well respected companies screw up far worse with a lot more lead time.

Meaning they shouldn't be held accountable for their "screw up"? I call it breaking the law. And ignorance is no excuse.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:17 pm

Anyone know anything about the ownership of this operation?


I just spent quite a while digging around on the Bulletproof web site and trying to figure out who exactly they are.

This is hilarious.

Their CEO is named Tom Parrella, who gives his Bulletproof business address as 8341 E. Gelding Dr., Scottsdale, AZ 85260. (He's been interviewed by WI media already, so apparently he exists.)

Trying to find more on that person at that address, I find this:
http://www.dprrealty.com/site/354049

OK, that goes to DPR Realty of Scottsdale Arizona. More precisely, 8341 E. Gelding Dr., Scottsdale, AZ.

From the DPR web page linked above, a cut-and-pasted quote:

In founding DPR REALTY, our mission was to build a leading residential real estate company that was recognized not for the magnitude of its holdings throughout the community, but rather its extraordinary commitment representing our clients buying and selling their homes, investments, and dreams.

....Our mission is to generate that view into a tangible difference for our clients. Anything less is unacceptable. Tom Parrella-Principal.


The guy is a realtor.

What the hell is going on here? A Florida mining company wants to hire top-drawer professional security for a job site and they wind up with an outfit run by some Arizona realtor?

This is fishy.

If you do a google search on "Tom Parrella" you find that for a big executive he spends an awful lot of time on business networking sites.
TPM found some of the same stuff on Parrella a day or two ago:

http://newswithtags.com/Art/editors-tal ... d86yXZes5Y
Last edited by snoqueen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

snoqueen
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:03 pm

And public access to regulatory information may not be as clear as one would wish, either. Maybe we were too optimistic upthread.

Republican state Sen. Alberta Darling of River Hills...gleefully accepted $467,293 from the mining industry.

No coincidence the partisan mining laws mean the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources can't shut the project down in an emergency, can't insist on access to company property or facilities, can't demand that the company produce test results, or core samples, instead the neutered agency can only review what the company wishes to provide.


That's from
http://political-capital.blogspot.com/
which is an interesting read in itself.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby FJD » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:49 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: Lots of well respected companies screw up far worse with a lot more lead time.

Meaning they shouldn't be held accountable for their "screw up"? I call it breaking the law. And ignorance is no excuse.



Sure if the new standard is to throw the book at any organization or individual that violates administrative regs, even if it's their first offense.

Personally I think that's a horribly ignorant position to take, but I doubt it's the standard you want in place anyway. You'll just make special exceptions for companies you dislike.


Sno has found plenty worth looking into about this company without nitpicking over administrative regulations.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Donald » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:22 pm

snoqueen wrote:And public access to regulatory information may not be as clear as one would wish, either. Maybe we were too optimistic upthread.

Republican state Sen. Alberta Darling of River Hills...gleefully accepted $467,293 from the mining industry.

No coincidence the partisan mining laws mean the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources can't shut the project down in an emergency, can't insist on access to company property or facilities, can't demand that the company produce test results, or core samples, instead the neutered agency can only review what the company wishes to provide.


That's from
http://political-capital.blogspot.com/

which is an interesting read in itself.


Yeah, pretty easy to get around that. Here's what we did: First, test it by filing requests for information under one of several state permitting authorities operating under federal auspices (air, water, etc.). The state will either provide the information or be in violation of their federal program. If they refuse the information file a complaint with EPA/notice of citizen suit. Refusing to provide citizens information under a federal program is grounds for having money withheld or the feds taking over. State caved by agreeing not to enforce that provision and repealing it the next year.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:55 pm

So it becomes a matter of doing an end run around the government of the state of Wisconsin and going straight to the feds, just as we've had to with several other of Walker's laws.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby HawkHead » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:08 pm

I am glad this is final getting the traction it deserves. My family has vacationed up in the Northwoods my whole life. We use to spend summers up in Phelps and winter weekends up in Cable. My parents got a condo up on Lake Namakagon later in life.

My favorite part of the North is how beautiful and peaceful it is. People with semi-automatics are certainly not welcome!


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