Penokee Hills

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Henry Vilas
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:08 am

The spin:
Bulletproof president Tom Parrella said Wednesday there was no intent to scare anyone, only to use weapons adequate to handle worst-case scenarios while protecting mine workers in light of online threats from a few extremist protesters, and “bizarre and alarming” behavior of people sneaking through the woods.

Bulletproof personnel wear masks to prevent threats to their families that could occur if their photographs were circulated, Parrella said.

“The guys aren’t out there to create some kind of fashion statement,” Parrella said. “These guys are professionals. They are not mercenaries, they are not hired guns.”

Parrella said it was an oversight that state of Wisconsin licensing wasn’t obtained.

“There was about a three-hour notice to pack our trucks and send them up to Wisconsin,” Parrella said.

They are not hired guns? Does that mean he won't pay them?

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby wack wack » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:03 am

No kidding, I'd like to hear his explanation as to just what "mercenaries" and "hired guns" are, if these are not it.

Perhaps it depends on how many of your troops got fat on Big Chicken Dinners on their way out of the military.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby snoqueen » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:44 am

In most states everything that is at all surface disturbing is disclosed, and you can look at the stuff and copy it in county and state offices. If there are test holes, they have to disclose where and when they are going to be drilled and how they are going to be drilled and reclaimed. Some states allow specific hole location information to be withheld from the public for a time as trade secrets, but it has to be on file with the regulators. If they are drilling monitoring wells to study groundwater, that's all going to be provided to regulators, and you can go in and look at it. If people want to find out what going on, a better plan is to visit state and county regulators weekly. Ask to see submissions by the company and all correspondence. Develop a professional relationship with the regulators and you'll find out a lot of stuff. Also, find professional geologists, hydrologists, etc. to provide expert advise. Start building a professional case now, because they are going to try to do whatever they can to truncate the process.


A good model for this game plan is Citizens for Safe Water Around Badger, which has worked for many years to get information and then cleanup of contamination left by the Badger Ammunition plant. They've got their own experts and have used government data too, and they've negotiated over and over. It's not a linear process, but they've done better than anyone hoped. It's never finished, of course.

Questions always arise as to whether all information is being revealed and how sound and objective that information is. They've learned they can't take anything at face value. I've followed the CSWAB work for two decades and I can't imagine the folks up north are unaware of their groundbreaking leadership. A mine isn't exactly the same as groundwater cleanup from old industrial uses, but the organizational principles are pretty universal:

http://cswab.org/
Last edited by snoqueen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

The One
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby The One » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:31 am

Well said snowqueen! The Badger Ammo action is what civilized people do and is a great why of showing how to get things done.

Unfortunately, we live in a time where the amount you care about on an issue is measured by how much disruption you can cause by occupying buildings or parks, scream down any person who has a difference of opinion, cover yourself in masks while causing damage, where disorderly conduct tickets are a badge of honor, intimidate the opposition by stalking, and all while screaming "this is what democracy looks like".

EF knows what they are doing. They are trying to make Wisconsin unattractive to any company that might want to do business here by saying, "If you come to this state, be prepared to bring security because you're going to need it. We're crazy here!"

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby fennel » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:37 am

I think the term is uppity.

rabble
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby rabble » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:49 am


Francis Di Domizio
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 am

$5 says a few of the guards from Bulletproof get temporary jobs working for directly Gogebic for the next few weeks.

rabble
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby rabble » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:58 am

No bet until I know whether they need a state license anyway, and how long it takes to get one.

Francis Di Domizio
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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:02 am

Unless things have changed in the last 10 years, the requirments are almost non-existent. Of course their are liability issues involved (which is why company's contract out in the first place), but for a few weeks while the licensing gets cleared up, I doubt the insurace costs would be too steep.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Dipper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:25 pm

"Unfortunately, we live in a time where the amount you care about on an issue is measured by how much disruption you can cause by occupying buildings or parks, scream down any person who has a difference of opinion, cover yourself in masks while causing damage, where disorderly conduct tickets are a badge of honor, intimidate the opposition by stalking, and all while screaming "this is what democracy looks like".

EF knows what they are doing. They are trying to make Wisconsin unattractive to any company that might want to do business here by saying, "If you come to this state, be prepared to bring security because you're going to need it. We're crazy here!""

Those Earth Firsters are annoyingly counter-productive. They're NOT helping. But let's get a sense of perspective here: A few jobless idealistic environmental activists vs. a multi-billion dollar multinational mining corporation. C'mon! They're fleas on an elephant's leg. If other corporations are scared off by these punks, they don't know what real risk is, not to mention how blind they are to tribal law.

And I guess you can stop trying to drag the anti-Walker capitol demonstrators into this as if they are responsible for those foolish vandals. Why not include abortion doctors and athesists into this while you're at it--they're just as relevant.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Michael Patrick » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:38 pm

Dipper wrote: Those Earth Firsters are annoyingly counter-productive. They're NOT helping.


Yep, I agree. Their actions pretty much guaranteed escalation on the part of Gogebic. And they completely ceded any moral high ground.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:31 pm

The bumper sticker:
Earth First! Stripmine the Others Later!

... is seeming oddly prescient.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:32 pm

Michael Patrick wrote:
Dipper wrote: Those Earth Firsters are annoyingly counter-productive. They're NOT helping.


Yep, I agree. Their actions pretty much guaranteed escalation on the part of Gogebic. And they completely ceded any moral high ground.

What do you expect? They're a company that specializes in digging themselves into holes, not out of them.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Dipper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:34 pm

Yep, I agree. Their actions pretty much guaranteed escalation on the part of Gogebic. And they completely ceded any moral high ground.


Yeah, but again, some dumbass vandalism vs. permanent destruction of the environment isn't exactly a moral tossup.

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Re: Penokee Hills

Postby Michael Patrick » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:44 pm

Dipper wrote:
Yep, I agree. Their actions pretty much guaranteed escalation on the part of Gogebic. And they completely ceded any moral high ground.


Yeah, but again, some dumbass vandalism vs. permanent destruction of the environment isn't exactly a moral tossup.


I was thinking in the short term, in the court of public opinion. The destruction of the environment, while pretty much assured, is still a ways off.

I'm just remembering the days of the marches on the Capitol after Walker dropped the bomb that became Act 10, the emphasis was on peaceful protest. And it largely was peaceful, to the extent that Walker had to think about bringing in outside agitators to stir up trouble.


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