State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

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Zoti Bemba
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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Zoti Bemba » Wed May 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Meade wrote:
penquin wrote:Backed a provision to let public safety workers collectively bargain over their health insurance premiums but not other costs of their plan"

That's the one.

Exactly. Emphasis added.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby snoqueen » Wed May 22, 2013 6:39 pm

In other words, not the specifics of the plan. Ex-actly.

If the object is to encourage people to exercise, I don't see where forcing them to show gym usage helps.


Another example of businesses helping other businesses but not necessarily serving their customers, and also an example of mistaking health "markers" for health outcomes.

For employee health, I think they'd see way better results if they could find a way to track how many steps (or minutes, or hours) a day people walked and then reward those who raised their numbers as an incentive. I bet that would track closer to better outcomes than this gym-membership game. Sounds like a nice little phone app waiting to be designed (if it hasn't been already).

People will try to game any system, but some systems are more gameable than others.
Last edited by snoqueen on Wed May 22, 2013 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Meade
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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Meade » Wed May 22, 2013 6:42 pm

Zoti Bemba wrote:Exactly. Emphasis added.

Retaining the statutory right to collectively bargain for health insurance premiums does not equal "losing most health care bargaining rights".

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Zoti Bemba » Wed May 22, 2013 6:59 pm

Meade wrote:
Zoti Bemba wrote:Exactly. Emphasis added.

Retaining the statutory right to collectively bargain for health insurance premiums does not equal "losing most health care bargaining rights".

Just all of them except the fixed monthly cost to employees. Employer offers a worthless high deductible plan, employees get to refuse to pay for it. Stalemate, and no coverage. Some bargain

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby penquin » Wed May 22, 2013 7:01 pm

Meade wrote:Retaining the statutory right to collectively bargain for health insurance premiums does not equal "losing most health care bargaining rights".


What article are you reading again? 'cause the one you quoted says that there is a proposal to restore the right to bargain on premiums. As it stands right now, it is illegal for a public safety union in Wisconsin to collectively bargain on any aspect of their health care insurance. They ain't about to lose that right, rather they already had it taken away and the courts said it was ok...but they might be allowed to negotiate the premiums (and only the premiums) if this suggestion is enacted into law.

And is it really being suggested that premiums make up "most" of what constitutes insurance and nothing else even needs nor should be discussed and negotiated? Please clarify...thanks.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby david cohen » Wed May 22, 2013 7:49 pm

I wonder if the 50 bucks will be taken pre-tax or post-tax?

Meade
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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Meade » Wed May 22, 2013 8:21 pm

david cohen wrote:I wonder if the 50 bucks will be taken pre-tax or post-tax?

Welcome to the Tea Party.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Meade » Wed May 22, 2013 8:34 pm

penquin wrote:They ain't about to lose that right, rather they already had it taken away and the courts said it was ok...

The courts? Has it been appealed to and decided by the state supreme court?

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby gargantua » Wed May 22, 2013 9:23 pm

Meade wrote:
david cohen wrote:I wonder if the 50 bucks will be taken pre-tax or post-tax?

Welcome to the Tea Party.

Just remember to stick to chai if you don't want to be primaried.

Good question about exactly how the $50 penalty, or surcharge will be treated for tax purposes. I would hope it would be income tax deductible, assuming one's health care deductions are high enough to allow one to deduct it.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby HawkHead » Thu May 23, 2013 9:57 am

Meade wrote:
david cohen wrote:I wonder if the 50 bucks will be taken pre-tax or post-tax?

Welcome to the Tea Party.


An Alice in Wonderland Tea Party.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby penquin » Thu May 23, 2013 2:49 pm

Meade wrote:Has it been appealed to and decided by the state supreme court?


Not according to anything I've seen. Are you saying that the State Supreme Court has overturned that ruling? If not, can you please point me to the information/article/report that leads you to insist that public safety unions in Wisconsin can collectively bargain in regards to their health care insurance?

I'm also still curious to know if you truly beleive that premiums make up "most" of what constitutes health care insurance. Please clarify...thanks.

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:22 am

$50 a month doesn't seem that bad given the cost to employers:

Smoking employees cost $6,000 a year more, study finds

$6000 seemed like a lot to me, but the breakdown is interesting and makes sense. It even factors in the fact that smokers who recieve a pension normally die younger (thus costing their employers less)

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby penquin » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:25 am

What is the over/under on how long before tobacco is as illegal as crack and marijuana?

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby lukpac » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:46 am

penquin wrote:What is the over/under on how long before tobacco is as illegal as crack and marijuana?


Crack and marijuana are equally illegal?

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Re: State Workers to be Charged for Smoking

Postby penquin » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:59 am

lukpac wrote:Crack and marijuana are equally illegal?


Technically marijuana is more illegal than cocaine. (The Federal Gov't allows for medical uses of cocaine, but not marijuana). Not exactly sure how crack fits into that picture.


I don't foresee any states trying to push for a "medical tobacco" exemption if/when tobacco is actually banned. Do you?


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