The movement to destroy public schools

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Francis Di Domizio
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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon May 20, 2013 11:57 am

fisticuffs wrote:They aren't customers they are students. They are the product of the schools. I want good product. Punishing "bad" schools doesn't make them better. In most cases the "bad" schools are that way becasue of the parents. Poorer schools, less attentive parents need MORE funding to overcome the odds and fulfill their mission not less. Private schools shouldn't receive public money especially at the expense of the public school.

Now back to your union bashing which has NOTHING to do with educating children.



I was all set to make a snarky comment about how Walker is distroying Public Schools, and the Teacher's Unions justs hates the competiton, but they you had to actually post something relevant to the actual problem facing schools. tyvm Fisti

I agree with you 100% that the problem facing failing public schools is caused on the consumer (parents who should want their kids educated) side, and not on the production side. The shortcoming of choice students in Milwaukee have made that fairly clear. I just don't see how throwing in more money (to private or public schools) will fix that particular issue. Short of highering private tutors to make sure each student goes, home, does their homework, and avoids the various social and legal pitfalls of living in poverty, schools are doing all that they can. If education isn't a priority of the family or the prevailing social structure the child is growing up in, why would the child think it is important?

Not so say (a lot) more money shouldn't be spent on public education, I just don't think more money is the solution to failing schools.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby wack wack » Mon May 20, 2013 11:58 am

The One wrote:Whatever happened to giving the parents and students the best opportunity for education?


Whatever happened to it? Where did this idea come from in the first place? It's not a right, it's not a law. A nice concept, nothing more.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby snoqueen » Mon May 20, 2013 11:59 am

I agree -- it's about the content.

You have here a contingent of people who disbelieve in science (except when it suits their agenda), who are opposed to environmental regulation and seem to hate environmentalism, some of whom do not believe in evolution, many of whom have an agenda on history that has little to do with what actually happened in history (you ought to see the official history of the state of Texas they're supposed to teach down there), many of whom have a decidedly retro version of sexuality and social relations, and many of whom are opposed to the teaching of anything but what comes from a white, English-speaking, and largely Christian perspective.

You can see why they aren't happy with public schools and want to destroy them or at least let them shrivel and die of their own accord.

Whatever happened to giving the parents and students the best opportunity for education?


There are some differences as to what constitutes "best."

For my money, it includes exposing all different races, languages, cultures to each other without favoring or disregarding any of them. This is a balancing act, but it's what socializes children to accept all their peers and how to go about it.

So it's not ONLY about the content. It's also about the greatest strength of public schools,, which is they teach children to get along as a member of the public -- the whole public as it really exists today.
Last edited by snoqueen on Mon May 20, 2013 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby wack wack » Mon May 20, 2013 12:03 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:The left invited this backlash by using public schools for indoctrination...


Public schools educate, private schools indoctrinate. Public schools teach what is there, private schools teach what they want to be there.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon May 20, 2013 12:07 pm

wack wack wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:The left invited this backlash by using public schools for indoctrination...


Public schools educate, private schools indoctrinate. Public schools teach what is there, private schools teach what they want to be there.

Good example of the indoctrination I was talking about.

Francis Di Domizio
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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon May 20, 2013 12:08 pm

fisticuffs wrote:Parents have school choice. We just don't need to subsidize it with public school funding.


What's more, they have subsidized school choice here in Milwaukee, the students in school choice programs are testing at about the same level as MPS students.

wack wack wrote:Public schools educate, private schools indoctrinate. Public schools teach what is there, private schools teach what they want to be there.


Sorry, but that's almost as stupid as Ned's statement (almost). Plenty of private schools do a hell of a job educating students. Some of them do indoctrinate as well, but it's not a binary choice.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby The One » Mon May 20, 2013 12:19 pm

fisticuffs wrote:You have evidence that Charter schools offer that?

I like to think the parent knows what's best their child and giving parents options and the financial opportunity to enroll their kid in a public or private school.

Parents have school choice. We just don't need to subsidize it with public school funding.

What other subsidies for private business do you support/ Should I get to use taxpayer dollars to hire private security? private garbage pickup? private water?

I see. You want to keep rich kids in rich schools and poor kids in poor schools. As long as the public keeps pumping money into a failing school so the failing teachers get paid.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby fisticuffs » Mon May 20, 2013 12:31 pm

I see. You want to keep rich kids in rich schools and poor kids in poor schools. As long as the public keeps pumping money into a failing school so the failing teachers get paid.


I want poor schools to do as well as rich ones. Yes that takes more money, smaller classes more after school programs etc. Taking money out of poor schools doesn't make them better. Making bad schools good should be the goal here. Is that your goal?

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby jjoyce » Mon May 20, 2013 12:32 pm

The competition talking point is a crock.

The best prepared kids in the country, without a doubt, are those lucky enough to go to school in well-financed, large, suburban public school districts. What's the best high school in our area? Middleton? Sun Prairie? Verona? All are palaces, built with massive influxes of cash generated by huge growth in those communities over the last 30 years. They literally invested in their schools to an alarming degree. Have you ever been in Middleton's Performing Arts Center? Ever seen their football stadium? Their Project-Lead-The-Way computer design labs?

Those seeking to de-fund public education are not interested in competition making education better and they're not interested in closing the achievement gap. They're interested in busting the teachers' union for political reasons and having their taxes drop.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon May 20, 2013 12:34 pm

jjoyce wrote: They're interested in busting the teachers' union for political reasons and having their taxes drop.

Guess what? They're legitimate reasons. And will lead to better- educated students and a more economical education system.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby fisticuffs » Mon May 20, 2013 12:35 pm

jjoyce wrote:and having their taxes drop.


Which isn't going to happen no matter how much funding Walker takes from public education.

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby jjoyce » Mon May 20, 2013 12:36 pm

The One wrote:I like to think the parent knows what's best their child and giving parents options and the financial opportunity to enroll their kid in a public or private school.


If you don't mind my asking, which school district taught you to write a sentence like that?

Francis Di Domizio
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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon May 20, 2013 12:42 pm

The One wrote:
fisticuffs wrote:You have evidence that Charter schools offer that?

I like to think the parent knows what's best their child and giving parents options and the financial opportunity to enroll their kid in a public or private school.

Ignoring the fact that choice students in Milwaukee are performing at nearly the same level as their peers in public schools; what in god's name makes you think that their parents know what's best?

The One wrote:[
Parents have school choice. We just don't need to subsidize it with public school funding.?
What other subsidies for private business do you support/ Should I get to use taxpayer dollars to hire private security? private garbage pickup? private water?

I see. You want to keep rich kids in rich schools and poor kids in poor schools. As long as the public keeps pumping money into a failing school so the failing teachers get paid.

Awww your concern for the plight of the poor is overwhelming, can I assume you also support more tax subsides and welfare for the children's parents?

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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby wack wack » Mon May 20, 2013 12:45 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
wack wack wrote:Public schools educate, private schools indoctrinate. Public schools teach what is there, private schools teach what they want to be there.


Sorry, but that's almost as stupid as Ned's statement (almost).


How rude!

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Plenty of private schools do a hell of a job educating students. Some of them do indoctrinate as well, but it's not a binary choice.


I agree, plenty of schools do a great job with education. Rarely is it without some sort of specific perspective or philosophy. I know my statement was over-simplified, but in the most basic sense I believe that most private schools arise based on some dissatisfaction with "the norm," and a desire to teach from a perspective based on that.

Not quality, but content, which Sno so nicely explained.

Francis Di Domizio
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Re: The movement to destroy public schools

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon May 20, 2013 1:03 pm

wack wack wrote:How rude!


Sorry, I'm feeling exceptionally snarky today

wack wack wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Plenty of private schools do a hell of a job educating students. Some of them do indoctrinate as well, but it's not a binary choice.


I agree, plenty of schools do a great job with education. Rarely is it without some sort of specific perspective or philosophy. I know my statement was over-simplified, but in the most basic sense I believe that most private schools arise based on some dissatisfaction with "the norm," and a desire to teach from a perspective based on that.

Not quality, but content, which Sno so nicely explained.


I think you are correct in regards to a lot of newer schools that have popped up in wake of the school choice programs, and it's expansion. On the other hand I think a significant portion of older schools, include some indoctrination but the primary focus is creating educated thoughtful students. (Ironically the critical thinking I learned in Catholic highschool is probably the leading culprit for my wanting nothing to do with the Catholic church.) Mind you my perspective is Milwaukee, not Madison, so I can't really speak to church affiliated schools there.


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