Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

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FJD
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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:08 am

Sorry, going to shift gears a moment:

Just saw that Wisdem.org is sharing the Pollina Corporate Full Report of Top 10 Pro business States for 2014 that states Wisconsin is the 4th worst state for business in the US.

Apparently who ever linked it is using the Henry Villas method of linking based on headlines rather then reading the actual report.

The top 10 States in this report are
1: Utah
2: Wyoming
3: Nebraska
4: Virginia
5: Kansas
6: North Dakota
7: Indiana
8: Missouri
9: South Carolina
10: South Dakota

Meanwhile joining Wisconsin at the bottom of the list are:
46: Wisconsin
47: New Jersey
48: Rhode Island
49: Illinois
50: California

In case those ranking don't make it perfectly clear what type of traits the Pollina Corporate State Report Card considers valuable, We receive an D or F for all of our tax rates, an F for not being right to work (they actually only gave out A grades or F grades for this category) and a big fat F for lack of incentives for businesses. Wisconsin has been earning over all F's since at least 2010. Probably a lot longer than that.

I guess the only question I have is what freaking idiot linked this report on the Wisconsin Democratic Party's web site?

FJD
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Re: Where's the parallel universe?

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:21 am

rabble wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: Maybe the TP would have resisted anything Obama did no matter what he gave them, but they wouldn't have gained as much power without ACA as a motivating force.

No, the motivating force was the lies about what the ACA was and what it would do.

They took a negative attitude, attached it to the fear of something new, amplified it with outright lies, and voila.

If not the ACA, they'd have used whatever else was handy. That was just the easiest one to apply the technique.

By the way, you seem to be implying that the Tea Party was a grassroots uprising, self-started, self-funded, and self-organized. Is that what you think?


You seem to be quibbling over details.

How ever you want to phrase it, the ACA was the tool that the people driving the TP movement used to stir up hatred towards Obama. Could they have found another tool? Possibly, but probably not one as effective. Obama didn't really have anything nearly as far reaching in his first 1.5 years.

For the record, I doubt highly if the actual powers behind the TP have any real animosity towards Obama themselves. On the other hand he stood in the way of their goals (or he has goals that might negatively effect them) and triggering hate against him is the tool they used to try and counter him.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:56 am

Walker's latest solution to unemployment is to drug test the unemployed.

rabble
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Re: Where's the parallel universe?

Postby rabble » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:36 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:You seem to be quibbling over details.

How ever you want to phrase it, the ACA was the tool that the people driving the TP movement used to stir up hatred towards Obama. Could they have found another tool? Possibly, but probably not one as effective. Obama didn't really have anything nearly as far reaching in his first 1.5 years.

No, we're disagreeing on a basic point. You're saying Obama would have been better off politically if he hadn't passed the ACA. I'm saying they not only WOULD have found another tool but it would have been exactly as effective because it's just an excuse to give racism and runaway ideological chauvinism an avenue of expression. Whatever they chose, including a completely falsified "this is what he's going to do!" with no evidence at all would have worked. (And actually that's pretty much what they did with the ACA.)

Francis Di Domizio wrote:For the record, I doubt highly if the actual powers behind the TP have any real animosity towards Obama themselves. On the other hand he stood in the way of their goals (or he has goals that might negatively effect them) and triggering hate against him is the tool they used to try and counter him.

Okay we agree there. The money men were just creating another tool but the tactic of letting that tool believe it was autonomous backfired and it went off leash.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby jman111 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:52 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I guess the only question I have is what freaking idiot linked this report on the Wisconsin Democratic Party's web site?

Well, there is some useful information in the report (from the introduction alone):
In the last few decades, low-income service jobs have been expanding sharply at the expense of middle-income manufacturing and production jobs. There are many more low-income fast food workers of all ages. These were part-time jobs in past decades that were available for students. Today, they are held by workers who have held middle-income manufacturing and office jobs in the past.

Kinda supports the left's arguments regarding minimum wage increases.

And this:
In 2000, productivity and total employment diverge; productivity continues to rise rapidly and employment suddenly begins a downward spiral. By 2011, there is a significant gap between productivity and total employment, showing economic growth with no parallel increase in jobs. Brynjolfsson and McAfee call it the “great decoupling,” which they are confident is caused by advancements in technology.
It’s a startling assertion because it threatens the faith that many economists place in technological progress. Brynjolfsson and McAfee believe that improved technology creates wealth but eliminates many types of jobs. Brynjolfsson points out, “It’s the great paradox of our era. Productivity is at record levels, innovation has never been faster, and yet at the same time, we have a falling median income and we have fewer jobs.

But I thought that the unemployed are lazy loafers who just don't want a job.

Oh, and this:
High unemployment and declining incomes have and will continue to lead Americans to a diminished standard of living. Simply, if people are unemployed, underemployed, and employed but find that their incomes are not rising in concert with the cost of food, housing, energy, health insurance, transportation, or education, they will spend less on discretionary items.
This, in turn, results in decreased income for businesses producing products and services for the domestic market, thereby pressuring these companies to lay off workers. This is the cycle the American people and American companies servicing the domestic market are currently caught up in.

How's that trickle-down strategy working?

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Re: Where's the parallel universe?

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:24 am

rabble wrote:No, we're disagreeing on a basic point. You're saying Obama would have been better off politically if he hadn't passed the ACA.

I actually didn't say this, but I can easily see how what I said could be taken that way.

Stepping back to Scott Walker for a minute, you cannot really claim that he suffered any real political harm in the wake of Act 10. He had to run for office an extra time, but won handily and if anything the whole mess has increased his stock with the GOP base.
In Obama's case the ACA mess hasn't helped him politically in the same way, but I don't know if it has really harmed him all that much politically. Of the two major parties right now, which do you think is in more disarray? I'd say the TP revolution has backfired in the face of the TP and the GOP.

rabble wrote:I'm saying they not only WOULD have found another tool but it would have been exactly as effective because it's just an excuse to give racism and runaway ideological chauvinism an avenue of expression. Whatever they chose, including a completely falsified "this is what he's going to do!" with no evidence at all would have worked. (And actually that's pretty much what they did with the ACA.)


On this point I think we are going to have to disagree in part. I agree that they would have looked for other things to attack him on (gun control for example), but I don't think they could have been as effective with anything else. ACA directly effects every American. Most new laws don't have that broad an area of effect. Even if they made up lies about his actions, finding an angle that was both as broad in subject and plausible enough in it's fabrication would have been difficult.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:36 am

jman111 wrote:Well, there is some useful information in the report


I'll be honest, at 2:00 AM I only looked through what the criteria was they used to rank the states. Which seems to be more than who ever linked that report did, or they might have highlighted the points you just made. Instead, who ever wrote that up highlighted that:
The poll findings are designed to reflect state leadership which truly understands the importance of producing the best business environment, and the best opportunities for job growth.


And completely missed the fact that "fixing" the areas that Wisconsin is "failing" at would send the Democratic party into a tizzy that would make the Act 10 protests look like a Sunday picnic.

but don't worry, that poll was
Wisconsin Democratic Party wrote:the most comprehensive, and impartial, examination of states available

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby PaleoLiberal » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:29 am

These lists on what are the best states to do business are hardly scientific.

In essence, they take the "researcher's" assumptions, see which states match those assumptions, and rank the states accordingly.

Which proves nothing.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby FJD » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:18 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:These lists on what are the best states to do business are hardly scientific.

In essence, they take the "researcher's" assumptions, see which states match those assumptions, and rank the states accordingly.

Which proves nothing.


Looking at the items they seem to be grading on, I would expect they started by asking businesses what factors they consider when deciding where to locate operations then grading based on those items. Not that such a method is much better then researchers making assumptions.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby Zoti Bemba » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:44 pm

As if all businesses were alike, all with the same needs and the same opinions.

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Re: Where's the parallel universe?

Postby rabble » Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:18 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
rabble wrote:No, we're disagreeing on a basic point. You're saying Obama would have been better off politically if he hadn't passed the ACA.

I actually didn't say this, but I can easily see how what I said could be taken that way.

You mean you don't think that? I know you didn't say that but now I'm confused about what you meant.
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Stepping back to Scott Walker for a minute, you cannot really claim that he suffered any real political harm in the wake of Act 10. He had to run for office an extra time, but won handily and if anything the whole mess has increased his stock with the GOP base.
In Obama's case the ACA mess hasn't helped him politically in the same way, but I don't know if it has really harmed him all that much politically. Of the two major parties right now, which do you think is in more disarray? I'd say the TP revolution has backfired in the face of the TP and the GOP.

Agreed on the second point, but it also hasn't stopped the Repubs from fucking things up in an amazing way. They don't have to be the party of NO! They could say yes once in a fucking while.

As to the first, how many people have said that Wisconsin's state of turmoil is scaring business away? The recall slowed down Walker's plan to sell off the state and had it over to the frackers, miners, and loggers. And the thing is, his overall plan would have gone MUCH better if he hadn't pissed off half the state so bad that he had to call in Sheriff departments and Park Rangers to handle the uprising and they STILL haven't settled down. Just how many times has that happened to a governor?

Francis Di Domizio wrote:On this point I think we are going to have to disagree in part. I agree that they would have looked for other things to attack him on (gun control for example), but I don't think they could have been as effective with anything else. ACA directly effects every American. Most new laws don't have that broad an area of effect. Even if they made up lies about his actions, finding an angle that was both as broad in subject and plausible enough in it's fabrication would have been difficult.

It's impossible to know. But I'm dead certain if ACA hadn't been there, you and I would be talking about a different McGuffin and arguing whether Obama would be in this position if it hadn't been there.

The reason it worked is because the bad feelings were already there just waiting for an excuse to hang them on. Anything would have worked, as evidenced by the long list of Obama myths that are still going long after being proven wrong.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby snoqueen » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:03 pm

Also, Benghazi.

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby bdog » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:07 pm

lol

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby DCB » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:37 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:We receive an D or F for all of our tax rates, an F for not being right to work (they actually only gave out A grades or F grades for this category) and a big fat F for lack of incentives for businesses. Wisconsin has been earning over all F's since at least 2010. Probably a lot longer than that.

Even with WEDC throwing money around like a drunken sailor?

Bartender, another whiskey for the sailor, stat!

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Re: Where are the jobs you promised, Walker?

Postby FJD » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:59 am

DCB wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:We receive an D or F for all of our tax rates, an F for not being right to work (they actually only gave out A grades or F grades for this category) and a big fat F for lack of incentives for businesses. Wisconsin has been earning over all F's since at least 2010. Probably a lot longer than that.

Even with WEDC throwing money around like a drunken sailor?

Bartender, another whiskey for the sailor, stat!


No shit! Based on this report, Walker may have opened Wisconsin for business, but apparently business would like him to spread a bit wider. Can't say I agree with much of that report, but based on it, the reason Walker hasn't managed to meet his job goals is because his isn't as big of a dick as businesses want him to be.


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