Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

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Stebben84
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:46 pm

Dudley, do you think a mine should be opened because the Bad River tribe had EPA problems?

Is that a problem, Yes.

Should they just let other people pollute their rivers because of that?

Do you want the mine there and do you think it will be safer than the Bad River Tribe's standards?

In the end, do you really care?

Doright_Dudley
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Doright_Dudley » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:54 pm

Stebbens, Why won't you just deal with the issues in the report?

Do you think the tribe should be able to continue to operate the wastewater treatment facility in violation of the Clean Water Act? Why do you think they have been allowed to have violations for years and still maintain a permit? What should be done about these continued violations?

WIDNR doesn't have jurisdiction - Should the EPA shut the plant down?

Lets talk about the issues at hand.

fennel
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby fennel » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:58 pm

Doright_Dudley wrote:Rabble,

Forget about the mine - you brought it up in the first place.

DoDud wrote:Why won't you address the issues in the report?

DoDud, haven't you read any of the preceding comments? Can you explain how the issues in this report might be relevant??

And are you paid by the post, or by the minute?

Donald
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Donald » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:11 pm

That's a 2009 investigative report you cite. During the Bush Administration (2001-2009) there was a considerable easing of Clean Water Act enforcement, and unrelenting efforts to undermine the entire framework of the Clean Water Act. The water treatment plant was upgraded during the Bush administration. If it wasn't upgraded adequately, perhaps that is the fault of federal officials during the Bush administration.

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/dec2008 ... -16-02.asp

The tribe just recently received authority from EPA to set various standards for waters on their reservation.

Doright_Dudley
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Doright_Dudley » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:12 pm

The Bad River Chippewa are violating the Clean Water Act (and have been for years and years) at a wastewater treatment facility that they run on tribal land.

Yet none of the environmentalists here seem to see anything wrong with this and refuse to discuss it?

Can you not see the hypocrisy? Really?

Doright_Dudley
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Doright_Dudley » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:15 pm

Donald wrote:The tribe just recently received authority from EPA to set various standards for waters on their reservation.


They cannot set standards below those already contained in the Clean Water Act. They cannot operate in violation of existing Clean Water Act regulations and standards either.

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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby lukpac » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:22 pm

Doright_Dudley wrote:Yet none of the environmentalists here seem to see anything wrong with this


Who said that?

Doright_Dudley wrote:and refuse to discuss it?


What is there to discuss?

Doright_Dudley
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Doright_Dudley » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:27 pm

lukpac wrote:What is there to discuss?


What should be done about the violations of the Clean Water Act for years and years by the Bad River Chippewa?

Donald
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Donald » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:38 pm

I checked the EPA's enforcement section website. There have been no enforcement actions undertaken by EPA of violations of the Clean Water Act by the Bad River Band. That includes through the entire Bush administration, and through the first four years of Obama's administration.

You seem to be suggesting that the Bush administration did not do a good job of enforcement of the Clean Water Act, and that Obama has not either. If you believe these to be significant violations, you can submit notice to the EPA that you will initiate a citizen suit.

A group I worked with engaged in such a citizen suit action against the EPA's failure to enforce the Clean Water Act against a mine in South Dakota.

http://www.aslf.org/citizen-suit-achiev ... n-sources/

Unfortunately, the mine was a ticking time bomb and Clean Water Act permitting came too late. The Canadian mining company made lots of money for some investors but the shell company went belly up, sticking you, the taxpayer, with the multi-million dollar cost to stabilize acid mine drainage which still continues 20 years after the first signs of problems.

http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund/sd ... index.html

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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby lukpac » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:45 pm

Doright_Dudley wrote:What should be done about the violations of the Clean Water Act for years and years by the Bad River Chippewa?


The simple answer would be "they should clean up their shit", but without knowing the details it would be hard to say that.

But what does that have to do with...anything?

Mad Howler
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:51 pm

Doright_Dudley wrote:EPA Data Points to Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Information from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggests that a wastewater treatment facility owned by the Bad River Band of Lake Superior Chippewa has a history of violating the Clean Water Act. An EPA permit issued to the facility grants permission to the tribe to discharge treated wastewater into the Bad River if the water meets Clean Water Act and permit-specific standards. Compliance data maintained by the EPA appears to indicate that water discharged from the facility has repeatedly failed to meet the required standards.


http://mediatrackers.org/2013/02/25/epa ... -chippewa/


Wow! This thread has been oddly rolling along without ya making a direct point other than that tribe over there appears sloppy. Are you allowed to share your objective(s)? Ore, are you just laying down ground fire?

Donald
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Donald » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:12 am

The point is this guy doesn't give a shit about the environment. He's just shilling for the mine.

I've checked out all the righty websites and they are ejaculating over this, even though they really don't know what it is they are ejaculating over. I guess they think they're lubricating the way for the mine up north, but really they are making the case against the mine. If the government can't enforce on some piddling and minor "violations" then it should be pretty easy to conclude they won't be able to deal with the mine.

After all, enforcement requires government action which costs money. During the Bush administration there was no effort to enforced CWA on anyone. In fact they wanted to gut the whole thing. I've been out of the environmental cause business for a while, but I expect the Obama administration is a tad better at enforcement.

Still, parts of the CWA which the Republicans want to gut, include the ability for individuals or groups to initiate citizen suits. It's a powerful tool to use, but these clowns don't want to solve any issues involving pollution of the environment, or they would use that particular tool. Instead, they want a political issue they think will influence some dipshit legislator. Sick people, these guys.

Mad Howler
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Mad Howler » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:23 am

Donald,
You are making too much sense. I fear that you may have deprived me of the joy of interpreting opposite speak from this agitator (troit). Whatever, nicely sincere and direct post.

MH

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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Doright_Dudley » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:41 am

New list of reasons to not enforce the Clean Water Act on the Bad River Chippewa.

1) It's Bush's fault
2) It's a tiny little facility
3) I don't know the details to form an opinion about this and don't really care
4) I don't believe there have been any violations and don't want to hear about it
5) The continued violations haven't harmed anything
6) It's a vast right wing conspiracy
7) They're doing the best they can
8) Forcing them to comply will just cost us taxpayers more money

The list of excuses is quite creative and extensive when added to the previous list.

A) not their fault
B) not really any proven violations
C) not really harming anything
D) their right to do whatever they want
E) just a couple of tribal workers that goofed-up
F) all of the above.

No outrage - only justification? Very telling indeed.

What a bunch of hypocrites.
Last edited by Doright_Dudley on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Donald
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Re: Clean Water Act Violations by Bad River Chippewa

Postby Donald » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:33 am

DipShit Dudley, if you're concerned about these "violations" you have options provided by the Clean Water Act. Why don't you take advantage of them? I realize Republicans want to do away with the very regulations you are claiming are violated, but maybe you should be taking advantage of those provisions. I'm not sure why you come here to this site, when you could be solving what you claim to be a serious problem. We had a similar discussion several years ago over the Milwaukee combined sewer situation.

At any rate, your employment in trolling here is just not going to be productive for getting done what you think needs to be done.


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