Act 10 overturned

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.
MPMay
Forum Addict
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby MPMay » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:26 pm

I have no doubt how our State Supreme Court will rule when this issue reaches them.

But I think this is just the sort of case that might interest the US Supremes, and I'm not so sure that they would uphold all aspects of the law. These are exactly the sort of differentiations that might get a Scalia or a Roberts upset that the legislative action was irrational.

I also think it is important to note that, despite the shorthand used by the media, the "law" was not overturned. Some key provisions were challenged and found Constitutionally wanting, but many others remain in effect.

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby Huckleby » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:56 pm

MPMay wrote: I also think it is important to note that, despite the shorthand used by the media, the "law" was not overturned. Some key provisions were challenged and found Constitutionally wanting, but many others remain in effect.

Ya, but it would be a political nightmare for Republicans if parts of the law related to equal protection were to be voided. Then the legislature would have the task of trying to fix the law, perhaps by subjecting the Vichey unions to the same provisions as the politically unfavored unions. Good luck with that.

I don't know exactly what provisions would remain, but I think you are understating the impact.

MPMay
Forum Addict
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:54 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby MPMay » Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:12 pm

Huckleby wrote:
MPMay wrote: I also think it is important to note that, despite the shorthand used by the media, the "law" was not overturned. Some key provisions were challenged and found Constitutionally wanting, but many others remain in effect.

Ya, but it would be a political nightmare for Republicans if parts of the law related to equal protection were to be voided. Then the legislature would have the task of trying to fix the law, perhaps by subjecting the Vichey unions to the same provisions as the politically unfavored unions. Good luck with that.

I don't know exactly what provisions would remain, but I think you are understating the impact.


LOL, oh no, I understand the huge impact of this ruling. So huge that I haven't got my arms around it to advise my client!

I'm just saying it is slightly misleading to say the "law" was overturned. Key provisions were overturned, such that the law may not have the impact the GOP wanted.

Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby Detritus » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:17 pm

Two points in the ruling that could have important effects down the road. First, that the process was constitutional. That means the same process could be used again for other policy issues--Republicans take note, nothing prevents Democrats from doing something similar if they find themselves in power again. Second, that requiring public workers to contribute more to their pensions does not constitute a "taking." That potentially opens the pension plans to more unilateral changes by the government, and perhaps opens other aspects of compensation as well.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 14097
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:11 pm

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 963f4.html

That's a summary of where things stand with regard to three suits involving Act 10.

What a mess.

What it shows, in my opinion, is how bad things get when you write legislation hastily, pass it without adequate time, discussion and public input, and fail to consider, even in passing, its consequences both direct and indirect. The law is now tangled up in both the state and federal court systems, rulings are being issued that can't possibly all be compatible with one another, and rulings yet-to-come aren't likely to clarify matters anytime soon.

An expensive way to do business, for sure.

Probably the best-considered and best-written legislation runs into court snags too, but Act 10 has got to be in more trouble than most. The judge has said the process was legal, but anyone can see it has worked very poorly.

Meade
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby Meade » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:40 pm

Sounds like snoqueen is talking about Obamacare.

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5015
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:27 pm

Huckleby wrote:Laws are supposed to apply the same to all. For Republican law makers to pick and choose certain unions to apply laws to ("divide and conqueor") certainly seems like a blatant violation of Equal Protection Clause.

But I have zero expectation that the consitutional objection will ultimately hold up. This thing is completely politicized, and Republicans control the WI and U.S. Supreme Courts. The U.S. Supreme Court in particular is very reluctant to apply the Equal Protection Clause - although they did see fit to use it to stop a vote recount in Florida.
One of the most obviously unconstitutional decisions of all time. By creating a deadline out of thin air that doesn't exist in law anywhere, they threw out 180,000 unexamined ballots giving them 0 value, while giving full value to the votes they preferred, and actually violated the equal protection clause. It was so bad that even they said their new ruling could never be used as a basis for law in any other case. Imagine a world w/sane fiscal policies, no war in Iraq, 9-11 warnings likely heeded instead of ignored, etc...

back to the topic. It's a nice twist I'm looking forward to following. And with John Doe still looming...

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 14097
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:50 pm

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 84636.html

The Journal-Sentinel tries to untangle the mess of lawsuits in that link. Notably, AG Van Hollen makes some comments about the most recent ruling that are actually based on its content, in contrast to Walker's thoughtful remark that the whole thing was the work of a liberal Dane County judge.

---

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/ju ... 97906.html

In the same edition, the J-S editorial board suggests the legislature should take another try at the legislation, which was hastily written and passed without adequate review and discussion (unlike the ACA, which was years in the writing and shows an elaborate effort to balance the concerns of numerous interested parties):

By capping union workers to cost-of-living salary increases while other employees could seek bigger increases, the state acted without a reasonable basis, Colas concluded. He also noted that local police and firefighters unions retained all their bargaining power under the law, which set up two classes of workers. That, Colas said, was a violation of workers' rights to associate with one another freely and be treated equally. Good points - and a concern we raised from the beginning about Act 10.


That's what happens when legislation is passed hastily and without enough input from all sides and enough consideration of its unintended consequences. Such prudence does not eliminate all court challenges, obviously, but to act hastily virtually guarantees them.

ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3262
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:35 pm

snoqueen wrote:That's what happens when legislation is passed hastily and without enough input from all sides...

Yes.

One could also say that this is the fallout from passing legislation that is meant to punish your enemies while attempting to placate those that ostensibly protect you and your cronies.

Sow. Reap. Enjoy.

ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3262
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:42 pm

Van Hollen to ask for stay in union ruling Tuesday
Attorney general calls union ruling 'woefully deficient'

Allow me to ask the question again: Why is State Attorney General a partisan office?

The One
Forum Addict
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:45 pm

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby The One » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:27 am

snoqueen wrote:That's what happens when legislation is passed hastily and without enough input from all sides and enough consideration of its unintended consequences. Such prudence does not eliminate all court challenges, obviously, but to act hastily virtually guarantees them.

Passed hastily? Act 10 went public on February 14th, 2011 and Walker didn't sign it until March 11th, 2011. The law wasn't legally published until June 14th, 2011 after the Wisconsin Supreme Court made it's ruling. That's 25 days with the bill in the legislature and 95 days in the court.

Not enough input? I know 14 senators that didn't give input because they ran across the Illinois border. The Assembly debated Act 10 for 60 hours. I fail to see how the Dems didn't give enough input.

lukpac
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3371
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Madison
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby lukpac » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:49 am

The One wrote:I know 14 senators that didn't give input because they ran across the Illinois border.


Seems to me that was far more input than they would have been afforded on the floor of the Senate.

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6073
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:41 am

The One wrote:Act 10 went public on February 14th, 2011 and Walker didn't sign it until March 11th, 2011.


It was supposed to be signed much earlier, but some folks left the state to give this some more scrutiny and publicity.

The One
Forum Addict
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:45 pm

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby The One » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:52 pm

lukpac wrote:Seems to me that was far more input than they would have been afforded on the floor of the Senate.

If you call giving input by doing nightly live shots on "The Ed Show", then you are correct.

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6073
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Act 10 overturned

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:57 pm

The One wrote:
lukpac wrote:Seems to me that was far more input than they would have been afforded on the floor of the Senate.

If you call giving input by doing nightly live shots on "The Ed Show", then you are correct.


Sure. The republicans hijacked the Senate and allowed for no debate. It wasn't until they left and starting getting the word out that people knew what was going on. I guess it spoiled the Republicans plans to ram things through the state legislature as fast as possible so no one has time to react. How delightfully democratic of them.


Return to “Local Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests