Billionaires pay no state tax

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6660
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby pjbogart » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:10 pm

Let's review: Henry Vilas posts an article from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel about how two of Wisconsin's billionaires paid no State income taxes in 2010. The first response to the OP was bdog, who simply stated "troll." Henry ignores bdog, who then proceeds to post twice more. He calls Henry a troll again, presumably simply for posting the article. Of the first seven posts, three of them are by bdog and not even remotely related to the article Henry posted. So who's the troll again?

Comrade actually had an interesting point but no one seemed very interested in the bait. Ignoring the juvenile ad hominems against Jim Doyle, it's a valid point that our tax system seems to favor the wealthy regardless of who is in charge. And while I agree that Republicans seem to bend over backwards to ensure that tax situations like this continue, Democrats do very little to change the system when they're in power. Oh sure, Obama tried to roll back the Bush tax cuts but Republicans were able to leverage the extension of unemployment compensation to force Obama to back down.

Face it, Republicans throw better tantrums than Democrats. And like any bad parent, Democrats usually cave in the end.

ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:32 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:a fairer taxation of the wealthiest
Surely you see what's wrong with this bit (from a logical perspective).
Henry Vilas wrote:You call that an appeal to authority. I call it a response to hypocrisy.
What is the hypocrisy? Failing to call T.R. a socialist?

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 21650
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:42 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:a fairer taxation of the wealthiest
Surely you see what's wrong with this bit (from a logical perspective).

If you think it is wrong, you tell me why. That's your point, not mine.
ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:You call that an appeal to authority. I call it a response to hypocrisy.
What is the hypocrisy? Failing to call T.R. a socialist?

When those who call those who are on the opposite side of the great political divide commies or socialists, yet refuse to say that same about Republican President Theodore Roosevelt, who espoused the same views, I call that hypocrisy.

Galoot
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Galoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:01 pm

Did Arturo ever call Obama a socialist? He seems far too intelligent to resort to such hyperbole (yes, Arturo, you piss me off for your one-note libertarian responses to just about everything, but you're a world apart from the right-wing trolls that have come here lately).

Just trying to work out the box score here at home.

ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:06 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:If you think it is wrong, you tell me why. That's your point, not mine.
You've implied that your preferred policy prescription is in the direction of greater fairness, but fairness is subjective.
Henry Vilas wrote:
ArturoBandini wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:You call that an appeal to authority. I call it a response to hypocrisy.
What is the hypocrisy? Failing to call T.R. a socialist?

When those who call those who are on the opposite side of the great political divide commies or socialists, yet refuse to say that same about Republican President Theodore Roosevelt, who espoused the same views, I call that hypocrisy.
Yes, Meade has committed a minor and effectively-meaningless hypocrisy. He commits the same hypocrisy over and over again by not similarly labeling each and every person who has ever advocated higher taxes on the rich.

edited for quote formatting
Last edited by ArturoBandini on Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Galoot
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Galoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:09 pm

Whoa there. A progressive tax code equals socialism? How so?

ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:09 pm

I haven't called anyone a socialist in the context of this discussion.

Galoot
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Galoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:18 pm

Nevermind. I actually agree with you. If Meade and others are willing to call Obama a socialist for simply advocating higher taxes on the rich, then he should be consistent about that, true.

What I disagree with is when you call it a meaningless hypocrisy. The hyperbole that Meade, and pretty much the entire right wing in the U.S. is spewing, needs to be faced with facts and history. I see it as the same sort of bullying that went on in this recall election, when teachers like me were called, to our faces, "union thugs". It needs to be stopped, and the bullies need to be shamed into acting like respectable citizens, not members of a lynch mob.

jman111
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3629
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby jman111 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:22 pm

speaking of hyperbole...

Galoot
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1487
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Galoot » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:28 pm

jman, what part was hyperbole to you? The 'lynch mob' bit? Then I'm sorry for that, I can only recall one instance of a Walker supporter threatening to kill a petition gatherer. That's not a mob, I agree.

bdog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3428
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby bdog » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:30 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:bgod, your question is a dollar limit on who pays a little more. How profound. Let's start with those in the top marginal tax bracket, if you know what that means.

Are you saying that those in the top marginal tax bracket should not get to deduct investment losses? Because that was my question.

bdog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3428
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby bdog » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:36 pm

pjbogart wrote:Let's review: Henry Vilas posts an article from the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel about how two of Wisconsin's billionaires paid no State income taxes in 2010. The first response to the OP was bdog, who simply stated "troll." Henry ignores bdog, who then proceeds to post twice more. He calls Henry a troll again, presumably simply for posting the article. Of the first seven posts, three of them are by bdog and not even remotely related to the article Henry posted. So who's the troll again?

Comrade actually had an interesting point but no one seemed very interested in the bait.

Oh Peej...you've been here long enough to know..we're ALL the troll. Well, except for Narco and Bwis.

Hey Peej...I think you doth protest too much. Brilliant huh? Watch out I got a "look in the mirror boy" in my pocket.

No one interested in Comrade's bait? Why Henry had a brilliant reply...for Henry.
Last edited by bdog on Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jman111
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3629
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby jman111 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:37 pm

Galoot wrote:jman, what part was hyperbole to you? The 'lynch mob' bit? Then I'm sorry for that, I can only recall one instance of a Walker supporter threatening to kill a petition gatherer. That's not a mob, I agree.

yep

pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6660
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby pjbogart » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:39 pm

I think of progressive taxation as a flat tax on expendable income, but that flat tax is a pretty high rate. If you consider your cost of living to be $30k and you pay 50% of your expendable income in taxes it works out something like this:

Under $30k/year- no taxes
$50k/year = $20k expendable x .50 = $10k, effective tax rate 20%
$70k/year = $40k expendable x .50 = $20k, effective tax rate 29%
$100k/year = $70k expendable x .50 = $35k, effective tax rate 35%

So it's not so much that your rate is changing as that you have more expendable income that's being taxed.

Cornbread
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 688
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Various places
Contact:

Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Cornbread » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:30 pm

pjbogart wrote:So it's not so much that your rate is changing as that you have more expendable income that's being taxed.


So then you're in favor of everyone being up to their eyeballs in debt, borrowing at every chance they get so they have no "profit" or as you stated, "expendable income" to tax?

Sounds like you are proposing people be tax cheats or go over their heads in debt in order to avoid paying the "progressive" tax that takes more and more money as one earns more and more money.

By jove, I do think you've discovered a large problem in those countries with very high rates of taxation (progressive)--the serfs do anything and everything to avoid paying such rates of personal theft. They can't move, so they cheat. In some nations, it's a national past time. Greece comes to mind. Argentina another. Many, many more.

Now what was your case again?


Return to “Local Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests