Billionaires pay no state tax

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david cohen
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby david cohen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:53 am

On it's face, it seems to be a major injustice. In the general sense, we don't tax based on assets but on income. There are plenty of folks with massive assets yet little, if any, actual income on paper. They get to deduct (as we all do) losses, charitable donations etc. against any income. We either reform the system or we live with the fact that if you have enough money to pay a good tax lawyer and accountant, you can get away with paying little or no taxes.

Lily
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Lily » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:11 am

bdog wrote:So Lily, you don't think rich people should be able to deduct investment losses from what they owe in income tax? Fair enough.

Just the billionaires? Down to the millionaires? Anyone making over $100,000?

What if their losing investments went to things like green energy? Still no deduction for losses?


Oh hell. I'm not a tax accountant. I don't even play one on tv. But yes, I think it's fair to deduct investment losses IF IF IF they are legitimate losses. That would be fair. I hate the idea of taxes at all but they are necessary to support our infrastructure. It does disturb me that the most prosperous individuals in our State don't pay ANY taxes. I won't put a specific number on it. If they are contributing in some way I want to know how. Otherwise, they need to pay out.

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Peanutbutter » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:29 am

Lily wrote:It does disturb me that the most prosperous individuals in our State don't pay ANY taxes.


Then you have nothing to be disturbed about, because the most prosperous individuals in our State do pay taxes.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that Helen Johnson-Leipold and Diane Hendricks each paid a lot more in State sales tax and property taxes than any two of the midgets that Henry was referring to.

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby peripat » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:35 am

How about some documentation on that?

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Detritus » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:42 am

bdog wrote:So Lily, you don't think rich people should be able to deduct investment losses from what they owe in income tax? Fair enough.

More to the point is the fact that, because they are taxed on income and not wealth, they are able to minimize or eliminate their taxes by substituting wealth for income. For example, they create a "charitable" trust that legally owns their houses, their cars, their private jets etc. and pays them an allowance that is carefully calculated to minimize their income tax burden--for example, by claiming investment losses that magically reduce their taxable income to zero or lower. This is how they can somehow lose all their money in bad investments year after year, and yet continue to shuttle between their houses in their private jets. They don't need an income--they have wealth.

I'm guessing that you brought up investment loss write-off to suggest that not letting them write off investment losses will cause broader economic problems. I don't have a problem with writing off real investment losses--but this kind of thing is just a way of enjoying the benefits of public resources without contributing to them. It's not only non-productive in an economic sense, it's actually counter-productive.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:12 pm

What T.R. said over 100 years ago still applies today.
The absence of effective State, and, especially, national, restraint upon unfair money-getting has tended to create a small class of enormously wealthy and economically powerful men, whose chief object is to hold and increase their power. The prime need to is to change the conditions which enable these men to accumulate power which it is not for the general welfare that they should hold or exercise.
...
Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes...

-Theodore Roosevelt

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Comrade » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:It seems like the conservative forons cannot defend the indefensible.


You expect conservatives to defend what was Democratic policy under Doyle?

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Detritus » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:59 pm

Comrade wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:It seems like the conservative forons cannot defend the indefensible.


You expect conservatives to defend what was Democratic policy under Doyle?

In other words, you don't care about the policy itself, just whether or not it is linked to the Democratic party.

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:00 pm

I'm not talking about any specific political party, as both major ones tend to bend over backwards to make sure the richest Americans get all the tax breaks they want.

But can you defend them?

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby snoqueen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:01 pm

Repetitively posting replies with no content does not negate the content of the article linked in the original post. It just shows respondents have found no way to defend what is described.

How about starting by telling us why untaxed billionaires is good governmental policy. Did they, for instance, create more jobs because they weren't bothered by taxes? Would they have gotten rid of unnecessary employees if they'd been taxed? Try discussing that and offering supporting material for your opinion.

Or tell us how much suffering they avoided due to the state not taking away any of their money. What losses were they spared?

All governmental policies have goals; what is the goal of this one? Why is it a beneficial goal? Who is monitoring how well the policy addresses the goal, and where are the results published?

We can wait.

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby snoqueen » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:53 pm

If it's too hard answering questions, here's some help from your leader:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z8

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:59 pm

The first three paragraphs from sno's link from the Washington Post:
All hail Grover Norquist!

Bow down, Lindsey Graham. The Republican senator from South Carolina dared to say he might consider supporting a tax increase — but then Norquist paid him a visit on Wednesday. “Every once in a while you have somebody with an impure thought like Lindsey Graham,” Norquist told me. But after their talk, Norquist could report that “Graham will never vote for a tax increase.”

Kneel before him, Tom Coburn. The Republican senator from Oklahoma had toyed with the idea of supporting a deficit-reduction deal that includes some tax increases, before Norquist conquered him. “He had a moment of weakness where he thought you had to raise taxes to get spending restraint,” Norquist said. “He now knows that’s not true.”

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby bdog » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:01 pm

bdog wrote:So Lily, you don't think rich people should be able to deduct investment losses from what they owe in income tax? Fair enough.

Just the billionaires? Down to the millionaires? Anyone making over $100,000?

What if their losing investments went to things like green energy? Still no deduction for losses?

Sno, how about you take a shot at these questions...

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby bdog » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:07 pm

Detritus wrote:
Comrade wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:It seems like the conservative forons cannot defend the indefensible.


You expect conservatives to defend what was Democratic policy under Doyle?

In other words, you don't care about the policy itself, just whether or not it is linked to the Democratic party.

Henry started it with his "divide and conquer" quote.

There's no need for that. I think we probably all agree our tax system needs an overhaul. And no I don't have supporting documentation of that. I have eyes to see.

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Re: Billionaires pay no state tax

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:16 pm

bdog wrote:Henry started it with his "divide and conquer" quote.

That quote was from one of the billionaires who paid no taxes. It's about them, not me. I paid more state income tax last year than they did.


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