Gun Mania

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jman111
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:37 am

Dangerousman wrote:Tell us why he couldn't still be arrested.

I think the more important question is "Why has he not yet been arrested?"

Henry Vilas
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:39 am

Dangerousman wrote:Tell us why he couldn't still be arrested.

Tell us why he hasn't been arrested.

DCB
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby DCB » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:48 am

jman111 wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Zimmerman (and his lawyer) won't have to "convince the prosecutor or jury" of anything, because the police didn't even arrest him. They just took his word that killing the teen (who was talking on his cellphone) was justified.

Spin it all you want, but Florida's law has allowed Zimmerman to get off scott-free without an investigation.


You don't think this is having the hell investigated out of it? I don't believe you've been following the news Henry.

I suspect that without all the recent media attention (note that this occurred over 3 weeks ago), there would have been much less investigating.

D-man is trying the usual 'the system is working' bullshit.

If the local police had done their job, we probably wouldn't have had of this media attention. Now the feds are stepping in, and the city manager is considering firing the police chief.

And still Zimmerman is walking free after cold-blooded murder.

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:51 am

DCB wrote:And still Zimmerman is walking free after cold-blooded murder.

And he is still in possession of his murder weapon.

jman111
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:53 am

Speaking of the Castle Doctrine....
No charges will be filed against a homeowner in Slinger who shot and killed a 20-year-old man who ran into an enclosed porch to hide from the police.

Washington County District Attorney Mark Bensen said the unidentified homeowner acted in self-defense under Wisconsin’s new “Castle Doctrine” law. It assumes that homeowners are justified when using deadly force against intruders.

Bo Morrison of West Bend was among those scampering from a nearby underage drinking party the police raided on March 3rd.

Sounds like the kid may have entered the porch "unlawfully", but I wonder if it was "forcibly". If not, it doesn't seem that Castle Doctrine should apply.

http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2012/mar/ ... -shooting/

Dangerousman
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:58 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Zimmerman (and his lawyer) won't have to "convince the prosecutor or jury" of anything, because the police didn't even arrest him. They just took his word that killing the teen (who was talking on his cellphone) was justified.

Spin it all you want, but Florida's law has allowed Zimmerman to get off scott-free without an investigation.


You don't think this is having the hell investigated out of it? I don't believe you've been following the news Henry.

If one is involved in a fatal automobile accident, a blood test for drugs and alcohol is mandatory. Yet in the Florida homicide "investigation" Zimmerman was not tested. That doesn't sound like much of an investigation.

If a middle aged black man shot dead a white teen he was pursuing because he thought the teen looked suspicious, do you think the shooter would have been charged?


In the Florida case, did he simply shoot him because he looked suspicious? Or did he shoot him during a struggle?

One is not allowed to kill another person by drunk driving. One does not lose the legal privilege of self-defense simply because one is drunk. I don't know what procedures they follow in Florida, but maybe the police had no reason to suspect Zimmerman had used drugs or alcohol. Why don't you call them up and ask them?

Do I think a middle-aged black man shooting a white teen that he pursued because he looked suspicious would be charged? Yes. Do I think a white middle-aged man doing so would be charged also? Yes. I also think a not-so-white and not middle-aged man like George Zimmerman would be charged too. I think, absent a struggle, any one of those 3 types of people would be charged.

Come on, Henry what's your threshold for middle age? (For the record, Zimmerman is 28 years old and listed as "Hispanic/mix race.") Holy crap, I'd like to think I wasn't middle-aged until I reached my 40s. WTF am I now? Ancient?

jman111
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:05 am

"Bo Morrison: Wisconsin's own Trayvon Martin"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/2 ... von-Martin

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:12 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:Tell us why he couldn't still be arrested.

Tell us why he hasn't been arrested.


How would I know? I'm not one of the investigators nor a prosecutor. Maybe it's because they have no grounds to arrest him? Maybe you want to arrest someone on better grounds than the fact that they aren't popular? I suppose they could be like Pontius Pilate and give into the crowd....

rabble
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Re: Gun Mania

Postby rabble » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:17 am

I asked a question a while back and it got lost. So I'll ask it again:

One expert put it this way: Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground; he was hunting.

The question I asked is, if your ground keeps moving towards the other guy, and then he stops and attacks you, who's standing ground and who's attacking?

A guy with no uniform who doesn't announce himself, follows a guy and tries to stop him. The other guy punches him and gets shot.

Who attacked who?

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:20 am

jman111 wrote:"Bo Morrison: Wisconsin's own Trayvon Martin"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/2 ... von-Martin


Do you want to start a conversation about that case? Okay, you go first. Let's start here: Was Morrison in that house legally at 2 a.m.?

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:22 am

Dangerousman wrote:Do you want to start a conversation about that case? Okay, you go first. Let's start here: Was Morrison in that house legally at 2 a.m.?


It doesn't seem that he was.

Should that be reason enough to be murdered?

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby jman111 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:25 am

Dangerousman wrote:
jman111 wrote:"Bo Morrison: Wisconsin's own Trayvon Martin"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/2 ... von-Martin


Do you want to start a conversation about that case? Okay, you go first. Let's start here: Was Morrison in that house legally at 2 a.m.?

ummmm....
jman111 already wrote:Sounds like the kid may have entered the porch "unlawfully", but I wonder if it was "forcibly". If not, it doesn't seem that Castle Doctrine should apply.


Now this:
A question surrounding this case is whether the 'castle doctrine' played a role. It's the law that protects homeowners who take action against an intruder. The district attorney said with or without it, he would have reached the same decision to not criminally charge the homeowner.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46817479/ns ... waukee_wi/

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby DCB » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:28 am

rabble wrote:I asked a question a while back and it got lost. So I'll ask it again:

One expert put it this way: Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground; he was hunting.

The question I asked is, if your ground keeps moving towards the other guy, and then he stops and attacks you, who's standing ground and who's attacking?

A guy with no uniform who doesn't announce himself, follows a guy and tries to stop him. The other guy punches him and gets shot.

Who attacked who?

And apparently, the police had asked Zimmerman to stand down before the confrontation. Not only did he have the opportunity to avoid a struggle, he disobeyed a request from the police.

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:30 am

rabble wrote:I asked a question a while back and it got lost. So I'll ask it again:

One expert put it this way: Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground; he was hunting.

The question I asked is, if your ground keeps moving towards the other guy, and then he stops and attacks you, who's standing ground and who's attacking?

A guy with no uniform who doesn't announce himself, follows a guy and tries to stop him. The other guy punches him and gets shot.

Who attacked who?


"your ground" simply refers to any location one is legally occupying. I assume both individuals in the Florida case were legally entitled to be present at that location since I've not read anything to suggest otherwise.

I think most people would agree that the person who threw the first punch is the "attacker" under most circumstances. Following a person you believe to be suspicious is not an attack. Loss prevention people follow suspicious individuals all the time. Are you entitled to punch them for doing so?

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Re: Gun Mania

Postby Dangerousman » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:33 am

lukpac wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:Do you want to start a conversation about that case? Okay, you go first. Let's start here: Was Morrison in that house legally at 2 a.m.?


It doesn't seem that he was.

Should that be reason enough to be murdered?


He was killed. Murder is unlawful killing. I'll grant that he was killed but ask you to explain what was unlawful about the killing.


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