Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

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Ned Flanders
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:55 pm

Think 80/20 rule kids.

Detritus
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Detritus » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:01 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Think 80/20 rule kids.

You mean the one that says 80% of the time Ned has no point, and the other 20% of the time he makes no sense?

Yeah, we noticed that one.

jimoo
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jimoo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:05 pm

Mr. Flanders, I don't look at these forums too much. I'm traveling a lot now, so unfortunately I have time to kill in airports, and I still love and care about Wisconsin. But you seem to delight in tearing down others. You appear to be (I hope I'm wrong) one of those people I was referring to that enjoys bringing others down instead of working together to bring us all up. I don't really understand it.

Ned Flanders
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:11 pm

Detritus wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Think 80/20 rule kids.

You mean the one that says 80% of the time Ned has no point, and the other 20% of the time he makes no sense?

Yeah, we noticed that one.

Oh kids. Don't blame luvable o'l Ned for stating the obvious.

20% of the people use 80% of government services. Of that 20%, maybe a quarter are truly "needy". The rest are working the system, seeing what they can "get" and/or suffering from their own irresponsible decisions.

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:18 pm

jimoo wrote:Mr. Flanders, I don't look at these forums too much. I'm traveling a lot now, so unfortunately I have time to kill in airports, and I still love and care about Wisconsin. But you seem to delight in tearing down others. You appear to be (I hope I'm wrong) one of those people I was referring to that enjoys bringing others down instead of working together to bring us all up. I don't really understand it.

Oh Jim, no need to be so formal. You can just call me "sir" in future posts.

How exactly am I "tearing down others"? You left a government job for a better paying private sector job. I, being the kind of wacko who believes in limited government and balanced budgets applauds your success and the lessened burden on taxpayers.

Truly a "win-win" situation in this case!

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby bleurose » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:32 pm

jimoo, of course ned flimflam is tearing others down about their lives. He has no facts to back up his position and every time any one shows that all he has are fairy tales (see: "by definition, government is too big. Cut by 50% and 80% of the people won't notice"), all he has to come back with is the same tired falsehood.

People like ned firmly believe that no one "deserves" help from the government and they also firmly believe that anything the government does to make this a better society to live in, some private business can do better and cheaper. Erroneous beliefs all the way around, but trying to understand people like ned is a waste of your time.

The first time these willful ignoramuses figure out that there is indeed a place for government will be when the toxic chemicals finally reach their water table. And then just watch them scream bloody hell about why didn't "the government" do something to prevent this. Because, you see, they are the only ones who truly 'deserve' government help. After all, these are the folks can't spell "moran" and who publicly were shouting "keep your hands off my medicare" while protesting about government which is supposedly too big.

They want everyone to pull themselves up by their bootstraps while busily taking away any possibility of others having access to bootstraps (see: Paul Ryan going to college on SS while working hard to make sure no one else will have that same help). They also can't see that most of the individuals whom they like to hold up as some sort of paragon to be emulated got their success and "earned" their money by standing on the backs of others, pillaging companies in hostile takeovers and then closing them, all the while using daddy's inherited $$ (see: Mitt Romney, vulture capitalist). Most of these so-called pillars of capitalism have not had to work their way up any corporate ladder except the one in the family business or the business where they got their first job because of daddy's connections and this usually happens after a cushy legacy ride at a prestigious college that they couldn't have gotten into on their own (see: George W. Bush, Yale & Harvard, C student).

You see, jimoo, the teapers and the right wingnuts who are frothing at the mouth about totally unregulated capitalism as perfection and all government except those parts they approve of should be abolished and the complete fallacy of "job creators" don't have a clue that all boats are lifted in a supportive society. They believe only THEIR boats are qualified to be lifted and they don't care how destitute YOU have to become or how few opportunties are available for you in order for that to happen. They crow on & on about "personal responsibility" all the while sticking their noses in your private life if they don't happen to approve.

So don't worry about understanding them because it won't get you anywhere.

Ned Flanders
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:36 pm

That's quite a pile of vomit. Have you seen a doctor?

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jimoo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:43 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
How exactly am I "tearing down others"? You left a government job for a better paying private sector job. I, being the kind of wacko who believes in limited government and balanced budgets applauds your success and the lessened burden on taxpayers.

Truly a "win-win" situation in this case!



It is not a win win. I left a job that I loved and worked hard at, in the service of the public. The state lost a good, hard working public servant.

It is not a win win by any definition.

jimoo
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jimoo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:49 pm

bleurose wrote: They believe only THEIR boats are qualified to be lifted and they don't care how destitute YOU have to become or how few opportunties are available for you in order for that to happen.



Interesting you bring up the boat analogy. Having worked for a few of fairly high level economists over the last decade, there is a widespread agreement from people of most political persuasions that "a rising tide lifts all boats" regarding expanding the economy. One of the last ones I worked for always put in the addendum... something along the lines of, ~ remember, tides lift boats from the bottom, they raise them by lifting them from the lowest levels, they aren't pulled up by captains in the cabins

Something that is too often forgotten with that analogy.

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jasonx5 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:25 pm

jimoo wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:
How exactly am I "tearing down others"? You left a government job for a better paying private sector job. I, being the kind of wacko who believes in limited government and balanced budgets applauds your success and the lessened burden on taxpayers.

Truly a "win-win" situation in this case!



It is not a win win. I left a job that I loved and worked hard at, in the service of the public. The state lost a good, hard working public servant.

It is not a win win by any definition.

so, all that we had to do was give you a 35% raise and you would have stayed? Call back in a month, I'm doing my best for you. I just planted a $1 bill in the back yard, I'll water it everyday and check its fruit in a month.

jimoo
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jimoo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:37 pm

jasonx5 wrote:
so, all that we had to do was give you a 35% raise and you would have stayed? Call back in a month, I'm doing my best for you. I just planted a $1 bill in the back yard, I'll water it everyday and check its fruit in a month.



I suppose that was an attempt at humor. I know it may not be obvious to you, but if you want quality employees, you have to have competitive compensation packages. That is true in all sectors. Lots of people will take less in salary to work in non profits or public service, but there are limits.

Detritus
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby Detritus » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:38 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:
Detritus wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Think 80/20 rule kids.

You mean the one that says 80% of the time Ned has no point, and the other 20% of the time he makes no sense?

Yeah, we noticed that one.

Oh kids. Don't blame luvable o'l Ned for stating the obvious.

20% of the people use 80% of government services. Of that 20%, maybe a quarter are truly "needy". The rest are working the system, seeing what they can "get" and/or suffering from their own irresponsible decisions.

So, assuming that your percentages don't come out of your butt (ha ha, right...), you're saying that 95% of the people are not gaming the system, but must be disenfranchised to avoid benefiting the 5% that are gaming the system?

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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby DCB » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:By definition, we can't afford the size of government we have now at any level. As I've said before, we could cut the size of government by 50% and 80% of the people wouldn't even notice.

Yeah, but the defense contractors would scream bloody murder.

jasonx5
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jasonx5 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:22 pm

jimoo wrote:
jasonx5 wrote:
so, all that we had to do was give you a 35% raise and you would have stayed? Call back in a month, I'm doing my best for you. I just planted a $1 bill in the back yard, I'll water it everyday and check its fruit in a month.



I suppose that was an attempt at humor. I know it may not be obvious to you, but if you want quality employees, you have to have competitive compensation packages. That is true in all sectors. Lots of people will take less in salary to work in non profits or public service, but there are limits.

I don't disagree with that.
There also limits to how much any organization has to spend on compensation packages. What government workers are asking for is that their neighbors cough up a little more so they can stay the same.
Sure it can be disguised as taxing the rich or business, but ultimately it is their neighbors they are asking to hand over more.

jimoo
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Re: Walker, where are those jobs you promised?

Postby jimoo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:48 pm

Well sure. People want more services. Faster services. Better quality employees. An updated and more modern infrastructure and user experience. It costs more money.

I suspect that we probably agree on many issues. That, in part, it isn't the total spent on compensation (which yes, every org has a budget for this), but how it is distributed.

Again, just like in the private sector, if you're unwilling (or unable) to pay more for your high performing employees, they will leave for better opportunities. The ones with opportunities always will. Just like (unless you're exceptionally careful) when you do a buy out or early retirement package for RIF purposes, the people that often accept it are the ones that have other opportunities (your better performers) and the ones that stay are your middling to low performers.

I don't have a good answer for all this, but I know blaming public sector employees that by and by work hard to serve the public for not all that great a wage isn't the answer.


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