Today in voter suppression

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peripat
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby peripat » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm

Well it has brought into public view a lot of Republican party racism and general race baiting that the Republicans were semi successfully denying until Obama got the Democratic nomination, if that if what you consider an improvement.

Bludgeon
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:07 pm

peripat wrote:Well it has brought into public view a lot of Republican party racism and general race baiting that the Republicans were semi successfully denying until Obama got the Democratic nomination, if that if what you consider an improvement.


Well, this thread is dead. While we're at it why don't we kick the dead horse to death and pick Peripat's brain and see if somehow there is in his mind any problem in the world that doesn't begin and end with the four letter "r" word.

True or false, Peripat: a world without white people = utopia?

That pretty much seems to be the gist, grist and alpha-omega of all liberal thought. Really, without all the filler material on the top, that's what it all boils down to. Liberal obsession with race issues is getting to be just about as bad as their deep left field counterpart's obsession with UFO sightings. This year I have heard everything.

rabble
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:02 pm

Well goodness me. How could I have misjudged such intellect.

Of COURSE this man is a former liberal. No doubt in my mind now.

if it weren't for Clinton, you'd still be out there chanting leftist slogans and whining about equal rights for wimmin and stuff.

And why do I keep feeding the trolls?

Detritus
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Detritus » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:56 pm

rabble wrote:And why do I keep feeding the trolls?

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

ilikebeans
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:09 am

Bludgeon, I've read through your links. Thanks for taking the time to find them.

You've convinced me: It's apparent that nursing home voting fraud does occur in multiple states. While ACORN is never mentioned, and they don't specifically state that nursing home residents were persuaded to vote a particular direction, that's splitting hairs. Multiple articles and authors blame the absentee voting process and (mostly) staff at the homes.

I'd like to point out that several of the states mentioned-- Florida, Michigan, Florida, Alabama, Florida, and Florida-- already have photo ID laws. Doesn't seem to be alleviating the concern too much.

In fact, with our law:
Once a mail-in absentee voter has provided photo ID, they are not required to provide photo ID again with subsequent absentee ballot requests, unless their registration status changes.

So basically any absentee election after the first one with a photo ID is automatically open to the same possibility of fraud that there was before the law was enacted.

I like the suggestion mentioned at your Daily Pennsylvanian link: mobile polling staffed by election officials. That doesn't seem to be in the works here, does it?

Bludgeon
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:02 am

Beans,

Wow. After a long long day of arguing with absolutely everybody from classes to FB to TDPF, I think your pleasant and well intentioned remarks just blew me away. If this part of the conversation is going to end let's end it on a high note, avoiding any rabbles or bone pickers that may come along.

And Pennsylvania, btw. I'm sure there are more but I hope that was enough digging for one week.

I agree on all points and diverge on what goes unmentioned by this part of the voter fraud conversation. Its too bad mobile polling booths aren't part of Wisconsin's voting laws, I think they should be. Maybe they will be; maybe that would be something Feingold would pursue if he were elected governor in 2014. I like that idea because it would be cheaper than anything we've tried implementing and it would pretty much solve the problem at nursing homes completely.

That said, all I'm saying is the seniors in nursing homes are more protected today than they were two years ago - not perfectly protected but anything that helps them is a net plus for me. Your quote from the law is more beneficial than at first it seems: 1) ID requirements make nursing home mining more expensive and time consuming, a bigger labor commitment for groups who would like to coordinate such an effort; 2) Because of this law we can reasonably assume that most first-time assisted living votes will be genuine and a result of a legitimate desire on the part of the voter; 3) cold as it sounds, most assisted living voters are unfortunately not going to have the chance to participate in more than two big election cycles. Anybody illegally requesting ballots on their behalf will have one less chance to do so in most cases.

Politicians get elected because they are good at campaigning, not because their ideas are particularly versatile - if this were not the case we would have a better chance of seeing something like the mobile polling booth in Wisconsin. In fact I could see that subject being something that could unite a movement of poll-pushers comprised of people from both sides of the aisle who first and foremost care about the integrity of the vote and the protection of the voters. If Feingold ran for governor this would be the kind of versatility I would expect out of his policies. I don't think I could ever be a Democrat again until the coalition changes somewhat, but I do think he would make a good governor.

Now I am rambling - peace.

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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby wack wack » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:53 am

Bludgeon wrote:Reporting on the results of a study published in the Election Law Journal detailing the evidence of nursing home fraud:

The Daily Pennsylvanian wrote:When nursing home staff are in charge of helping seniors vote, disenfranchisement tends to occur. This is especially true when it comes to senior citizens with cognitive impairments such as dementia due to Alzheimer’s disease, Medical School professor Jason Karlawish said.

Often you get staff deciding who can or cannot vote,” making it important to “address the issue of preserving the integrity of the ballot, maximizing voter rights and finding a better way of conducting the voting process,” Karlawish added.


What a point... we shouldn't let the trained experts who work with seniors every day and know them personally decide who is aware and capable enough to cast a legitimate vote. Best to leave that to untrained "mobile polling attendants."

snoqueen
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby snoqueen » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:37 am

The question of who having cognitive impairment is qualified to vote is not going away as our population ages. Alzheimers and other age-related impairments are very slow-moving and there's no clear line marking the day someone permanently becomes too confused to understand what she's voting for.

I was guardian for my aunt, who had Alzheimers and died at 97. She was eligible to vote in Bush II's last election and we had a discussion on whether we should offer her a ballot or not. Her caregivers thought she knew what was going on and had an opinion (she sat in front of the TV a lot, so that wasn't impossible). Finally we asked her. She said she did want to vote and she thought the present guy (she couldn't pull out Bush's name) was doing a good job and should get a second term.

We got her an absentee ballot and let her vote, and it pleased her to do so even though I cringed at her choice. That's the whole point: it wasn't up to me to pick her candidate, just to enable her to vote in a legal manner. I'd hate to see this right abridged or made more inconvenient. There's no reason to drag these old, old people out to get ID cards, for starters. Medicare and Social Security know who they are, and that ought to be enough.

Next election, she had no idea what was going on and we knew offering her a ballot, or even having another discussion, was pointless.

I think this is going to become a big national issue and we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg with present voter-suppression measures.

Stomach
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Stomach » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:52 am

Bludgeon wrote: Liberal obsession with race issues is getting to be just about as bad as their deep left field counterpart's obsession with UFO sightings. This year I have heard everything.


I just found this really funny for a few different reasons. Nothing to add, feel free to go about your business.

wack wack
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby wack wack » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:57 am

Bludgeon wrote: Liberal obsession with race issues is getting to be just about as bad as their deep left field counterpart's obsession with UFO sightings. This year I have heard everything.


You're lying to yourself if you think Mitch McConnell's repeated assertion that his #1 goal is to make Obama a one term President is anything but the most racist thing to come out of D.C. in years. Pure, and proud of it. Disgusting.

I can't look at McConnell without seeing a white hood.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:13 am

It isn't just the elderly who might have lost the cognitive functions to make an informed choice while voting. I am the legal guardian of my brother, a disabled veteran who resides at the VA Medical Center in Tomah. He is mentally incompetent and while eligible to vote, I would never pressure him or the VA on this issue. And if he did decide to cast a ballot, I would in no way try to influence him in as to whom to support.

When I taught, some of my students were 18 (or older) and while I encouraged them to follow the issues and register to vote, I never pushed for (or against) any candidate. They sometimes asked me who I am voting for, I told them to ask again after the election as I did not want to influence their choices. They were often surprised as to whom I cast my vote. They thought I was more conservative than I really am. Then I knew my teaching was unbiased.

Bludgeon
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:18 pm

For everyone who is sad the elderly will no longer be able to be defrauded in their nursing homes in massive absentee ballot drop scams, your hero, Eric Holder is likely to do you a favor and attempt to bankrupt the state to make sure those fake votes get counted.

the nation wrote:"The fact that Obama invoked the Justice Department is very important, since the department has the authority under the Voting Rights Act to approve, deny or modify these laws. “The Justice Department should be much more aggressive in areas covered by the Voting Rights Act,” Congressman John Lewis told me recently."


Then again the Holder DOJ may have finally jumped the shark. I strongly approve.

DCB
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby DCB » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:58 am

Bludgeon wrote:For everyone who is sad the elderly will no longer be able to be defrauded in their nursing homes in massive absentee ballot drop scams...


If unscrupulous political operatives are taking advantage of nursing home residents, this voterID bill will not solve that problem.

But it will create problems for many other nursing home residents. So now you have two problems, where before you had one.

I don't why you're obsessed with disenfranchising the elderly.

This could happen here.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:10 am

I had jury duty earlier this week (wasn't picked) and when I showed up, I only had to give my name to the jury clerk. No ID was required to prove I was me.

DCB
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Re: Today in voter suppression

Postby DCB » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:50 am

ALEC has been busy getting similar bills passed around the country.

The Brennan Center looks at the national impact:
New voting laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012, according to the first comprehensive study of the laws’ impact.

Widespread voting cutbacks could have a significant electoral impact in next year’s hard-fought races, the study concludes. Minorities, poor and young voters will likely be most affected.


http://www.brennancenter.org/content/re ... ve_million


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