Decker needs his ass kicked

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indycoyote
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby indycoyote » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:11 pm

So let me get this straight: Walker threatens to privatize union jobs (which would require the collective bargaining laws of WI to be legislatively overturned if Walker wants to get rid of unions, best as I can tell), then the lawsuits (and injunctions) commence, then the unions are forced to agree to a contract whereby their members PAY to be employed? Somehow that seems a bit farfetched because the union workers won't easily agree to this. Not to mention that many union employees might just retire (and cash out of WRS)...yep, gonna be a wild ride! Imagine, if you will, 20,000 state employees all cashing out within a 12 month period. That would be insane!

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Dulouz » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:58 pm

If the state union rank and file have any balls, the Beil, Decker and Plale households should be burnt to the ground by morning.

however, the unions should have gotten this done before the election (in fact, they should have made their donations based on it). Unfortunately, after 14 years of whoring the movement out to Thompson, Beil thought he would be able to do the same thing and played the cards horribly wrong.

Decker was right: elections have consequences.

Lily
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Lily » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:00 pm

David Blaska wrote:
Luke HATE Walker wrote:Will Walker cut the pay of himself and his staff by the same percentage that he expects to cut regular middle class workers for the state. ... Walker should have the balls to freeze ALL state spending or cut it entirely across the board, not on the backs of just a few.


The answers are 1) Yes and 2) Yes. Walker has already indicated he personally will pay the health insurance premiums and retirement contribution he expects of everyone else. ..


---------------------
The answers to LukeHATEWalker are 1) NOT. Walker nor the Legislature or any of their staff will take pay cuts or the furloughs they impose on State workers. The Democrats didn't take the pay cut or furlough either. 2) A freeze across the board? NOT. In fact Walker and the Legislature will probably take a raise in January just like the Democrats did when they imposed the original furlough (pay cut) for other State workers.

It's much easier to brag you'll pay your own health insurance premiums and retirement contribution when you're pulling in a 6 digit income. Whether he's going to set a true example by imposing pay cuts/furloughs on himself and his staff as well as the above, well, I just don't see it happening.

lukpac
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby lukpac » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:22 pm

David Blaska wrote:Walker has already indicated he personally will pay the health insurance premiums and retirement contribution he expects of everyone else.


What gets conveniently ignored is total compensation. The issue is framed as state workers getting a free ride, but when salary is factored in, it isn't so free. Sure, folks in the private sector may see more taken out of their paychecks for these things, but their paychecks are also larger.

What is "fair" about wanting public employees to earn a public salary but pay in for things at a private rate?

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby magic moose » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:57 am

lukpac wrote:
David Blaska wrote:Walker has already indicated he personally will pay the health insurance premiums and retirement contribution he expects of everyone else.


What gets conveniently ignored is total compensation.


Damn straight. What gov't employees lose to the private sector in salary is only partly offset by these amenities. Included in this "total compensation" is also the comparative stability that comes with government employment. If the risk increases (as it certainly has after the election), and nominal total compensation is uncertain, which employees will make a run at the door first? Any bets on the differential rate of retirement in December? Any state employees out there making backup plans? How does uncertainty affect productivity?

Ideologues do damage before ever making their first decision in office.

Michael Patrick
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Michael Patrick » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:10 am

Yes, history is important....

Yes, benefits are somewhat higher, but that's because they were bargained for in exchange for lower wages. And yes, the total compensation package, including wages and benefits, is generally less for state employees than for comparable jobs in the private sector.

And one more thing... I'm going to smack the next person who compares "average" public-sector employee pay and benefits to "average" private sector pay and benefits. There is nothing "average" about the makeup of the state workforce. A lot of what we do is very technical and requires higher levels of education and expertise than "average." In my division no one has less than a masters, and there are at least four PhDs.

Lance Boyle
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Lance Boyle » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:14 am

What did Beil et al gain for the membership(s) by not getting this done sooner ?

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Crockett » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:28 am

Michael Patrick wrote:And yes, the total compensation package, including wages and benefits, is generally less for state employees than for comparable jobs in the private sector.


A LOT of people batting this statement around. Could I see some stats. I've actually seen the OPPOSITE in papers lately.

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Crockett » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:28 am

Dulouz wrote:If the state union rank and file have any balls, the Beil, Decker and Plale households should be burnt to the ground by morning.


Gheez, I don't know why people are anti-union...

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Michael Patrick » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:36 am

Crockett wrote:
Michael Patrick wrote:And yes, the total compensation package, including wages and benefits, is generally less for state employees than for comparable jobs in the private sector.


A LOT of people batting this statement around. Could I see some stats. I've actually seen the OPPOSITE in papers lately.


Debunking the Myth of the Overcompensated Public Employee

The data analysis in this paper, however, indicate that public employees, both state and local government, are not overpaid. Comparisons controlling for education, experience, hours of work, organizational size, gender, race, ethnicity and disability, reveal no significant overpayment but a slight undercompensation of public employees when compared to private employee compensation costs on a per hour basis. On average, full-time state and local employees are undercompensated by 3.7%, in comparison to otherwise similar private-sector workers. The public employee compensation penalty is smaller for local government employees (1.8%) than state government workers (7.6%).


magic moose
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby magic moose » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:39 am

Crockett wrote:
Michael Patrick wrote:And yes, the total compensation package, including wages and benefits, is generally less for state employees than for comparable jobs in the private sector.


A LOT of people batting this statement around. Could I see some stats. I've actually seen the OPPOSITE in papers lately.


I'm not sure if the USA Today adjusts for equivalent skill and prerequisite education.

Crockett
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Crockett » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:52 am



Citing EPI is like me citing Cato. Not exactly unbiased. I may be stupid but I'm not dumb...

Crockett
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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Crockett » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:56 am

magic moose wrote:I'm not sure if the USA Today adjusts for equivalent skill and prerequisite education.


The other question is do we NEED so many employees and so much education to fill out paperwork at the DMV or deliver mail?

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Endo Rockstar » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:09 am

Crockett wrote:
magic moose wrote:I'm not sure if the USA Today adjusts for equivalent skill and prerequisite education.


The other question is do we NEED so many employees and so much education to fill out paperwork at the DMV or deliver mail?


O_o

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Re: Decker needs his ass kicked

Postby Broadsheet » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:37 am

I love Mike Ellis saying he feels sorry for the state workers and that they "got shafted" by the Democrats.

If he felt so sorry for them and thought they were getting shafted, he could have voted for the contracts. One vote would have done it.


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