Local stances on marriage

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SHOULD PARISI ISSUE LICENSES?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:29 pm

Yes. He thinks its so fair, he should walk the walk. The Midwest should get in on this!
17
65%
No, the law is the law (except equal protection clauses which remain to be fully interpreted).
3
12%
No, he knows that gays using questionable licenses would not be a potent way for them to fight.
6
23%
 
Total votes: 26

SIZZAW
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Postby SIZZAW » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:50 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:I sure you'll join me then, in applauding elected officials who allow citizens to carry side arms at all times, seeing that it is right actually enumerated in the Constitution.


What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Are we really talking about the Constitution?

If Bush gets this amendment passed, it will be one of the few (if not the only, I haven't read it in awhile) that actually takes away freedom. Seems foolish and dangerous.

I'm all for people doing whatever floats their boat in regards to marriage. It's an outdated and hypocritical institution anyways, IMO.

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Isn't it time the gov got out of the marriage biz?

Postby Marvell » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:26 am

I think the most compelling post in all of this was the one enumerating the 1000+ rights that a 'domestic partnership' wouldn't provide.

In my mind, an acceptable compromise would be to make 'domestic partnership' legaly equivalent to marriage, and remove any reference to 'marriage' in any federal, state or local statute. Religious denominations could then choose to descriminate, or not, against homosexuals, as their consciences saw fit.

If people think that the 'Judeo-Christian' tradition requires ludicrous atavistic bigotries, what the hell do I care? But it seems like the Mother of All No-Brainers that our government has absolutely no business codifying that into tax, inheritance, or any other kind of law.

By the way, I've come up with a perfect slogan for The Log-Cabin Republicans:

"I'm narrow, but not straight."

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Postby hotshot » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:38 am

Daisy wrote:
hotshot wrote:Where does he live? In Madison it would probably propell him. in In a city that's compared to Berkley that would be the sixth or seventh one to do this, in Dane County where Tammy Baldwin is in Congress (by beating a moderate), if you can't stand up for gay rights here, you should reconsider your perception on what principles must fall to pragmatism.
Please cite an example of Tammy disobeying the laws of the Congress in which she serves.


I bet I could point out a couple laws she disobeys but that's not my point. Tammy is out despite representing several surrounding mod/conservative counties. Despite that, she ran while (the first to be openly) violating numerous sodomy laws throughout the country. If more and more cities take this up (as is likely), it's going to be a little sad for Madison, a year from now, to join Chicago or Boulder as the fortieth-odd cities to give out certificates based on equal protection clauses. If we've become nervous, at least replace that 'Berkley of the midwest' sign with 'Smug latte town snug on its laurels'. How much foritude would it take for Parisi, running inside the liberalist city in the liberalist county in the midwest, to do what officials did cities in NY, California, New Mexico, Oregon, and counting? This isn't the city of pragmatism. If he wants to represent Madison, that act would propel him into state office. Instead, he'll be a Madison moderate and probably have to fight a Green.

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Postby Daisy » Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:21 am

hotshot wrote:I bet I could point out a couple laws she disobeys but that's not my point.
Yeah, that's what I thought...
hotshot wrote:If he wants to represent Madison, that act would propel him into state office. Instead, he'll be a Madison moderate and probably have to fight a Green.
1. The assembly race is not going to turn on gay marriage.
2. Parisi's in favor of gay marriage, but is abiding by the law. That position hardly makes him a "moderate." Do you want pro-life governors ignoring the legality of abortion and unilaterally shutting down every clinic in their state?
3. If Parisi's biggest challenge will be "to fight a Green," he'll be fine. Despite the Greens fearsome record of electing people to the legislature.

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Postby bungee » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:08 am

Daisy wrote:3. If Parisi's biggest challenge will be "to fight a Green," he'll be fine. Despite the Greens fearsome record of electing people to the legislature.

I don't know, Mark Green got elected to the Assembly before moving on to Congress. :wink:

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Postby aaron » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:12 pm

Berkeley = "Berkley"

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Postby naked pagan » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:59 pm

wee beastie wrote:the British Empire were government officials of various stations.Should they have left the revolution to the farmers and shop-keepers? If so, it would have never occured.


Actually, they were farmers and shop keepers.

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Postby Marge » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:43 pm

hotshot wrote:How much foritude would it take for Parisi, running inside the liberalist city in the liberalist county in the midwest, to do what officials did cities in NY, California, New Mexico, Oregon, and counting? This isn't the city of pragmatism. If he wants to represent Madison, that act would propel him into state office. Instead, he'll be a Madison moderate and probably have to fight a Green.

You know, this really bugs me. It's up to Parisi whether or not he takes any action on this. You think someone in his position should behave differently? I guess we'll see your name on the ballot.
Leave the guy alone. If he doesn't feel like this is the right thing for HIM to do, then I respect that.

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Postby hotshot » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:48 pm

Marge wrote: If he doesn't feel like this is the right thing for HIM to do, then I respect that.


It's easier since for HIM there already is a right of marriage and the 1100 rights that go with it. Would you 'respect' him as much if this was a legally-questionable interracial marriage he was being asked to allow? And if the interracial couple included a person dying of cancer who would get health insurance as soon as they marry? Yeah, he can represent Dane County values by doing what he 'thinks is best' and you can 'respect' him for it, and then I can call him an ass.

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Postby snoqueen » Fri Mar 05, 2004 10:53 pm

New York's AG came out with a detailed opinion saying NY was legally bound to honor same sex marriage licenses issued in other states, but same sex marriage was at this time not legal in NY. He practically gave people a road map showing where legal pressure needed to be applied to make s-s marriages legal. He made it clear he personally supported s-s marriage, but at this time the law wasn't there. In NY his opinion and information was received as most helpful by those who want to see marriage rights extended to same sex couples.

We need somebody to do the same for the state of Wisconsin before the legislature passes this stupid state constitutional amendment. Civil disobedience is only part of a long term strategy to challenge and change the law. Civil disobedience is first of all an act of conscience, and second a public demonstration intended to awaken the conscience of others. In itself it does not amount to legal change, and is not the sole course of action open to those who wish to see legal change.

If Parisi wants to help secure gay marriage, his only option is not to start issuing licenses. If he sees the personal risk as not worth the gain, he may have a point because all the s-s marriage licenses he issues could well be invalidated in a few months or years. While there is personal and collective satisfaction in successfully flouting a distasteful law, there's more to the project than what happens in the county clerk's office.

If other people want to see gay marriage happen, there is plenty of organizing, legal research, strategizing, fund-raising, persuasion and demonstration, test-case-building, leadership, and more to be done. Everybody who wants to see this happen can find a role to play -- it's not limited simply to opening an office and filling out certificates.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but the example of desegregation and the long and difficult years of organizing that preceded Brown v the Board of Education is an instructive study. A lot of groundwork has to be laid before a definitive ruling is issued or a new law written. The conservatives are trying to ace everybody out by passing a man-woman-marriage constitutional amendment before this process can play out.


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