Memorial Day honoring the war dead

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white_rabbit
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Postby white_rabbit » Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:56 pm

Uncle Jimbo wrote:...s**t... Tough s**t...


If you're such an advocate of free speech, why do you edit yourself?

TheBookPolice
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Postby TheBookPolice » Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:53 pm

Uncle Jimbo wrote:It seemed to me that some of the folks there didn't want there ideas shown in the light of day beyond their little echo chamber. Tough s**t, there's that pesky Bill of Rights again.


And now the "Bill of Rights" means forced exhibition of anything said in public.

Maybe if you actually understood the Constitution, you wouldn't be so eager to change it.

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Postby Uncle Jimbo » Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:23 pm

Or maybe if you understood it in any manner you could savvy the simple fact that stopping me from observing or recording a public gathering is wrong.

The right of those clowns to stop me is trumped by mine to observe. Strange with a handle like yours you are clueless on this.

Cordially,

Uncle J

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Postby TheBookPolice » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:30 am

Uncle Jimbo wrote:Or maybe if you understood it in any manner you could savvy the simple fact that stopping me from observing or recording a public gathering is wrong.

The right of those clowns to stop me is trumped by mine to observe. Strange with a handle like yours you are clueless on this.


Strange with a handle like yours that you're not my actual uncle Jim. Jesus christ, people, it's an internet username. It's not my fucking biography.

Anyway, non-uncle Jimbo, please see the following cases for why you're wrong:

Potts v. City of Lafayette, Indiana

Nixon v. Warner Communication Inc.

Uncle Jimbo
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Postby Uncle Jimbo » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:45 pm

Book Police,

I appreciate your taking the time to provide cites, and while I appreciate your bumping me to Nixon's level I don't think that one quite applies.

The other one is close, but still fails to justify private citizens restricting my right to film in a public place. The Klan rally in the cite was covered by a police protection agreement and they refused the man entry by the same rules applied to anyone else attending for safety purposes.

I am still unaware of any legal basis for someone to restrict my right to film based on disagreement with my positions, or a desire to protect their public speech from being exposed to the many folks who don't go to peace rallied and their attendant disgust with many of the sentiments expressed.

Cordially,

Uncle J

white_rabbit
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Postby white_rabbit » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:26 pm

Uncle Jimbo wrote:I am still unaware of any legal basis for someone to restrict my right to film based on disagreement with my positions, or a desire to protect their public speech from being exposed to the many folks who don't go to peace rallied and their attendant disgust with many of the sentiments expressed.


Did you find it objectionable when non-Bush supporters were ejected or refused entry to Bush/Cheney '04 rallies during the campaign?

Cordially,

Uncle Rabbit

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Postby Uncle Jimbo » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:07 pm

Absolutely.

If they had disrupted the rally then ejecting them from a political event is fine, but cherry-picking attendees the way they did was lame and wrong.

Cordially,

Uncle J

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Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:25 pm

Uncle Jimbo wrote:I am still unaware of any legal basis for someone to restrict my right to film based on disagreement with my positions, or a desire to protect their public speech from being exposed to the many folks who don't go to peace rallied and their attendant disgust with many of the sentiments expressed.


From Potts:

(T)here is nothing in the Constitution which guarantees the right to record a public event.


The circumstances don't have to be exactly the same for the legal precedent to hold.

And you are aware that private citizens are not barred by the Constitution in any way from restricting your freedom of speech or press activity. The First Amendment only applies to the State. You do know that, right? I can tell you to shut the hell up, and I can stand in front of your camera all I want. As long as I'm not violating a restraining order, trespassing on your private property, or harming you or your possessions, I can be (pretty much) as big of a pain in the ass to you as I want. It's my right. It's anyone's right.

And for you to get all whiny and pissy about it and come on this forum and post videos trying to demonstrate how you were so inconvenienced only shows that you have truly NO respect for the rights granted by the Constitution, and want to restrict the behavior of anyone who would act in a way that you find objectionable.

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Postby Uncle Jimbo » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:40 pm

And you are aware that private citizens are not barred by the Constitution in any way from restricting your freedom of speech or press activity. The First Amendment only applies to the State. You do know that, right? I can tell you to shut the hell up, and I can stand in front of your camera all I want. As long as I'm not violating a restraining order, trespassing on your private property, or harming you or your possessions, I can be (pretty much) as big of a pain in the ass to you as I want. It's my right. It's anyone's right.

And for you to get all whiny and pissy about it and come on this forum and post videos trying to demonstrate how you were so inconvenienced only shows that you have truly NO respect for the rights granted by the Constitution, and want to restrict the behavior of anyone who would act in a way that you find objectionable.


I would like to believe you thought a bit before you posted this, but you didn't (hopefully).

If we live by your ideals, the biggest mob wins. I have no right to film above your mob's right to stop me.

How f**king sorry is that? Do you really want to square off against me and mine in mob rule?

So in order to film in a public place I have to file a restraining order against any clown who wants to act up?

You chose your little internet nickname wisely.

Cordially,

Uncle J

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Postby TheBookPolice » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:19 am

Uncle Jimbo wrote:If we live by your ideals, the biggest mob wins. I have no right to film above your mob's right to stop me.


You wouldn't be able to cross the street if enough people wanted to block your path. This is nothing new. People get together to do things. Suddenly this is a threat to democracy?

That "mob" you decry is also known as the "majority"--something you right-wingers were all about until it turned against you.

Uncle Jimbo wrote:How f**king sorry is that? Do you really want to square off against me and mine in mob rule?


You're the one constantly casting this as a "fight." If you don't want an antagonistic society like the one about which you suddenly seem so concerned, then maybe you shouldn't wander the public square acting as confrontationally and as antagonistically as you do.

Uncle Jimbo wrote:So in order to film in a public place I have to file a restraining order against any clown who wants to act up?


No, you just have to bring a camera and turn it on. But that doesn't mean everyone else is bound by the Constitution to clear a path.

Uncle Jimbo wrote:You chose your little internet nickname wisely.


Yeah, I did, asshole, because I'm a correctional fucking librarian. Ooh! Scary!

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Postby heyduke » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:23 am

Jimbo, TBP is right. If you're going to wrap yourself up in the constitution, you might want to read up on it first.

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Re: Memorial Day honoring the war dead

Postby Genie » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:17 am

Uncle Jimbo wrote:There was a protest on Memorial Day at James Madison and I stopped down to see if there would be any attention paid to the purpose of the day.

There wasn't and for 2 1/2 hours I listened to anti-war boilerplate, and Bush lied etc. It was sad that the one day out of the year dedicated to our war dead was hijacked by a group of people more interested in making themselves feel good and playing politics. All it would have taken was one of the speakers saying let's take a minute to recognize the sacrifices of those who made it possible for us to com e here and complain.


At least one of those speakers was a Vietnam Vet and so did put his life on the line for his country. The same goes for Will Williams, the Iraq War vet and others in the audience. If they choose to devote Memorial Day to trying to achieve peace instead of war, that is their perogative. This wasn't the first anti-war rally held on Memorial Day, Jimbo. They have been going on here for over 30 years.

Then Will Williams and Allen Ruff decided that free speech isn't really free and stood in front of my camera and then bum rushed me along with bald Tom Cruise.


They shouldn't have blocked your camera. And they shouldn't have prevented you from speaking. Nor should they have shut off your camera.


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