Mayor Trolley is a betting man

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Woe Now
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Mayor Trolley is a betting man

Postby Woe Now » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:26 pm

If you listen to our good mayor, itâ??s obvious that his grand vision includes endorsing downtown high-rise condo complexes and townhouse developments. Good or bad, that is will be his legacy.

In my opinion, he invasions the retired or retiring cash rich boomer population selling off their existing homes and taking the lump sum to buy an expensive shiny new downtown condo/townhouse. Thus, raising property tax revenue based these new expensive downtown high-density properties. So in his grand scheme, this new source of revenue would actually pay for the trolley system. Clearly the Overture center is part of the downtown dwelling allure.

This looks great on paper, but Dave is now faced with reality.

Those high priced units are NOT selling.

Now the mayor is in a pickle with the trolley. I am guessing here, but I have a feeling that he thinks that the trolley system will drive up demand for those downtown units by providing the aging baby boomers â??buying prospectsâ?Â
Last edited by Woe Now on Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jjoyce
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Postby jjoyce » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:35 pm

Woe Now wrote:Did he ever do a study on how many baby boomer cash rich folks really want to live in theses luxury cracker boxes? I donâ??t think so.


I love studies, too, but I would say that the Madison boomers aren't empty nesters quite yet. Many still have a high schooler or maybe a couple kids in college. They're not yet in the market for a downtown condo.

Give it a few years.

That's not to say I think this is good for the city, as I'm nauseatingly on record as suggesting that old, rich whities will kill/are killing downtown Madison as many of us have grown to love it. I fear only that the streetcar map proposed by Mayor Dave will seek only to help boomers get from the Square to Hilldale quicker (to see the Jack Nicholson retrospective at Sundance 608, natch), not help bring young professionals who are setting up camp in the outer neighborhoods where they can actually afford to buy houses back IN to the city for recreation and consumption.

But y'know, if in 20 years it's much cooler to live in Milwaukee where the corner bar is still the G.D. corner bar and not someplace selling vanity wine and oily bruschetta, then that's the way it's gotta be. The two metro areas will swap positions in terms of population size, they might as well swap spots on the lameness meter as well, right?

Paco
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Postby Paco » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:00 pm

When did 'downtown high-priced Condos" become Daves plan? It's happening in every decent sized liveable city in the country, if not the world. Look around.

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Postby Marvell » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:20 pm

I was hoping this thread would be about the new novelty single by some local country act - but no.

So I guess we'll have to write it ourselves:

Mayor Trolley is a betting man
But man his blood ran cold
When well 16 bled manganese
And the condos still weren't sold -


Take it away, forons...

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Postby Bwis53 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:22 pm

Okay, if I had the money, I wouldn't want to be so far up in a highrise, that I couldn't see some birds, trees, and flowers. I like looking down my hillside, down the slope. My landlord lets me garden. On the other hand, every time I see an ad for some of the smaller, cuter condos downtown, my imagination starts to take off. I tried so hard to talk my son into going to school here. Imagine how happy I was to hear him say, he might like to live here some day! I have a lot of history here and I love quirkiness and anomalies. Otherwise, I may as well buy a car and live in Mundelein or Crystal Lake, Illinois. Or in a ticky-tacky box near a man-made lake.

I like our buses, when they are running well and I don't want to see our street ripped up by expensive tracks.
Last edited by Bwis53 on Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Woe Now
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Postby Woe Now » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:22 pm

Paco wrote:When did 'downtown high-priced Condos" become Daves plan? It's happening in every decent sized liveable city in the country, if not the world. Look around.


Hmmm....Maybe its part of his ten point plan.

Economic development and neighborhoods:

A new Office of Neighborhood Services
Possibly rewriting the economic development plan and zoning code
Approving a redevelopment proposal for the city-owned properties on Allied Drive
Redirecting TIF: "It is my belief that the pump for downtown housing has been primed sufficiently using TIF, and it is time to let the market work and to focus TIF primarily on job creation and the rebuilding of basic urban infrastructure."


The pump for downtown housing has been primed?


What does that mean to you?

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Postby spanky » Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:22 am

Paco wrote:When did 'downtown high-priced Condos" become Daves plan? It's happening in every decent sized liveable city in the country, if not the world. Look around.


Well put. When we start building something else (say hotel rooms) downtown, will you blame or praise the mayor. Fools.

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Postby Paco » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:47 am

I'd rather have a hundred people paying property taxes on one small part of land downtown than one person, even if I can't afford it. Less for me to pay.
I didn't know this started only 4 years ago.

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Postby Bwis53 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:19 am

All the Northwest Metra tracks, in the downtowns outside Chicago, are surrounded by new condos. As far as I know from the last few years, I was in business, only downtown Arlington Hts. has a grocery store, in walking distance. They have made big efforts to inbuild, with a huge library and cultural center. (People got tired of the hour plus trip into the Loop.) Yes, this is a nationwide trend. At least AH also has citizens careful enough to control how big of a McMansion to build on a ranch house footprint!

Personally, I'm a little concerned about being priced off the Isthmus, in which case, why be in Madison?

My biggest concern with any rail system is the product, it's use, and how to pay for it. I don't need a Cadillac!

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Postby gargantua » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:05 am

I didn't know the Mayor was building all those condos! I thought it was private developers doing it, in an attempt to make, you know, money for themselves.

The power people seem to think this mayor has never ceases to amaze me. If the people of this city don't want trolleys.....there will be no trolleys, no matter how much Dave wants them. He can wish, plan, scheme, with all his heart and soul, and the bottom line is still the same. He can't have trolleys/streetcars/whatever without the support of the citizens of Madison. We're pretty damn good at keeping things from being done when we put our minds to it.

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Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:24 am


cristobal
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Postby cristobal » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:05 am

For a progressive town, you all are sure a bunch of cranky naysayers. Really, you're sounding like old dudes from the late 19th century grumpily harrumphing about the folly of cement roads or something like that.

The question really is "Mayor Dave, visionary or fool?" and the only way to answer it is to build the streetcars.

So maybe there are other things to spend money on. Are they visionary? Do they have the possibility of transforming our city? No.

The alternative suggestions have been things like more busses, cheaper housing, lower taxes. That's incremental patchwork.

Sometimes it takes a visionary/fool/madman to bring something great into existence and to resist the constant parochial nitpicking.

I say BUILD IT and in 20 years we'll decide whether it was good or bad.

cristobal

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Postby Bwis53 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:09 am

Like the Bus Transfer Point system?

I almost typed transfer pint system....

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Postby harrissimo » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:48 am

cristobal wrote:For a progressive town, you all are sure a bunch of cranky naysayers. Really, you're sounding like old dudes from the late 19th century grumpily harrumphing about the folly of cement roads or something like that.

The question really is "Mayor Dave, visionary or fool?" and the only way to answer it is to build the streetcars.


What kind of idiot are you? This is just about the most stupid thing I read here in awhile.

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Postby bluethedog » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:58 am

cristobal wrote:I say BUILD IT and in 20 years we'll decide whether it was good or bad.

Oppenheimer couldn't have said it any better.


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