Former Alder Accuses Mayor Of Campaign Ethics Violations

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pragmad
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Postby pragmad » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:09 pm

Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad

Mister_A_In_Madison
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:34 pm

pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad


The report is a minor issue (perhaps) compared to the use of city resources for campaign purposes.

However, it could be suggestive of a pattern of behavior.

Whether that behavior is intentional manipulation of city resources for the incumbent's gain or simply incompetence on the part of the campaign itself will be for others to decide.

pragmad
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Postby pragmad » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:07 pm

Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad


The report is a minor issue (perhaps) compared to the use of city resources for campaign purposes.

However, it could be suggestive of a pattern of behavior.

Whether that behavior is intentional manipulation of city resources for the incumbent's gain or simply incompetence on the part of the campaign itself will be for others to decide.

I guess, but I'm not sure what the mayor'suppose to do when the Elections Board gives the ok.
-Pragmad

massimo
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Postby massimo » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:16 pm

Seriously, I'm gonna start accusing people of forum ethics violations if this quote box shit doesn't stop.

Kanye Westsider
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Postby Kanye Westsider » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:32 pm

pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad


The report is a minor issue (perhaps) compared to the use of city resources for campaign purposes.

However, it could be suggestive of a pattern of behavior.

Whether that behavior is intentional manipulation of city resources for the incumbent's gain or simply incompetence on the part of the campaign itself will be for others to decide.

I guess, but I'm not sure what the mayor'suppose to do when the Elections Board gives the ok.
-Pragmad


That' the whole point. He violated CITY law, not STATE law. What's he gonna do when the MADISON ethics sanctions him? (After the election I bet).

pragmad
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:57 pm

Postby pragmad » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:56 pm

Kanye Westsider wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad


The report is a minor issue (perhaps) compared to the use of city resources for campaign purposes.

However, it could be suggestive of a pattern of behavior.

Whether that behavior is intentional manipulation of city resources for the incumbent's gain or simply incompetence on the part of the campaign itself will be for others to decide.

I guess, but I'm not sure what the mayor'suppose to do when the Elections Board gives the ok.
-Pragmad


That' the whole point. He violated CITY law, not STATE law. What's he gonna do when the MADISON ethics sanctions him? (After the election I bet).
]
No, the whole pt is the city doesn't have an elections bosrd. The state's will hear the case. Now. should they have looked up Madison's rule before answering? Yes, but that'd not the mayor's fault. His campaign asked the people who should hsve known.
-Pragmad

Mister_A_In_Madison
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am

pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:
Dulouz wrote:
Kanye Westsider wrote:C'mon. The guy broke the law. How is this any different than the caucas scandal?


Where is the "pay to play"? Or are all laws the same: speeding=retail theft=embezzlement=murder?

Should the City treat every license oversight by a tavern as a license pulling event?

I assume that you also think that the DA should go after the illegal gambling machines in the city and county taverns (including a certain bar on N. Sherman)? After all, The Law is being broken!


See Chakroff for the pay to play. (He gets to keep his job if he produced some jazzy radio spots during reelection).

The other thing they got thrown in jail for was using taxpayer resources for campaigns. That's exactly what Dave is doing. Using taxpayer resources for reelection.

His true self is coming out.

Because of water reoort? Geez, policy doesn't stop in an election yr. Might this help the mayor? Maybe? But that's the luck of being an incumbant.
-Pragmad


So, the water report coming out two months early is policy?

Or is it luck?

So it's the mayor's fault the report's done? Or is he suppose to sit on the report? Maybe the police shouldn't arrest any criminals this weekend cuz it could help the masyor?
-Pragmad


The latest mishap by the Water Utility indicates that they have not quite learned all of their open communications lessons.

Or perhaps they have learned none at all, and the annual water report was politically motivated after all?

bluethedog
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Postby bluethedog » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:51 am

massimo wrote:Seriously, I'm gonna start accusing people of forum ethics violations if this quote box shit doesn't stop.

No shit. It's like Alex Haley in "Roots" having to listen to that tribal guy drone on for hours because "He's gotta start from the beginning". Except for us there's no "Kunta Kinte, I found you!" prize at the end.

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Postby Dulouz » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:16 am

Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
Or perhaps they have learned none at all, and the annual water report was politically motivated after all?


doubtful--at least from the Mayor's office. Maybe the Water Dept Chief thought that he was doing his boss a favor (he wasn't) but the Mayor made it clear that he was hands off.

If you take a minute away from conspiracy theorizing, it makes sense for the Mayor to stay away from it. If he suppresses the report until after the election, people will assume the worst and he will be attacked for suppressing it. On the other hand, if he tries to publish it prior to the election, it will seem like political grandstanding and using his office inappropriately.

Mister_A_In_Madison
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:06 pm

Dulouz wrote:If he suppresses the report until after the election, people will assume the worst and he will be attacked for suppressing it.


Considering the report is typically delivered in June, you would consider delivering it on time as suppression?

Mister_A_In_Madison
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Postby Mister_A_In_Madison » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:13 pm

pragmad wrote:No, the whole pt is the city doesn't have an elections bosrd. The state's will hear the case. Now. should they have looked up Madison's rule before answering? Yes, but that'd not the mayor's fault. His campaign asked the people who should hsve known.
-Pragmad


This, again, speaks to a pattern of behavior... this time, ignoring (or being ignorant of) city ordinances.

If you will recall, the Mayor suggested plastering advertising on the recycling bins... within a few weeks of the City Council banning sidewalk advertising.

pragmad
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Posts: 28
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Postby pragmad » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:07 pm

Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:No, the whole pt is the city doesn't have an elections bosrd. The state's will hear the case. Now. should they have looked up Madison's rule before answering? Yes, but that'd not the mayor's fault. His campaign asked the people who should hsve known.
-Pragmad


This, again, speaks to a pattern of behavior... this time, ignoring (or being ignorant of) city ordinances.

If you will recall, the Mayor suggested plastering advertising on the recycling bins... within a few weeks of the City Council banning sidewalk advertising.

How does banning sifewalk advertising relate to Recycle Bins? You mean bins on the sidewalk? There are a lot of bins not on sidewalks. And I doubt he had much to do w/ checking the election legallity. He prob asked his staff to check and they did. Now, the state's board should have checked the city ordinance because they hear any case. My guess is he won't have to pay because clearly they were given wrong info.
-Pragmad

Kanye Westsider
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Postby Kanye Westsider » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:41 pm

pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:No, the whole pt is the city doesn't have an elections bosrd. The state's will hear the case. Now. should they have looked up Madison's rule before answering? Yes, but that'd not the mayor's fault. His campaign asked the people who should hsve known.
-Pragmad


This, again, speaks to a pattern of behavior... this time, ignoring (or being ignorant of) city ordinances.

If you will recall, the Mayor suggested plastering advertising on the recycling bins... within a few weeks of the City Council banning sidewalk advertising.

How does banning sifewalk advertising relate to Recycle Bins? You mean bins on the sidewalk? There are a lot of bins not on sidewalks. And I doubt he had much to do w/ checking the election legallity. He prob asked his staff to check and they did. Now, the state's board should have checked the city ordinance because they hear any case. My guess is he won't have to pay because clearly they were given wrong info.
-Pragmad


dumbest. post. ever.

so you're saying that if somebody asks the european union about generic traffic laws, then drives in madison according to those laws. should they get off when they get pulled over for driving the wrong side of the road just because they were given "wrong" information? (btw - the information they were given wasn't "wrong". they were just too dumb to check local law).

Why should the election board have checked to see what local law is? The STATE elections board deals with STATE law. If you want to know local law, go to the local level. If you want to be able to just go one place and get all kinds of law, both state and local, hire an attorney.

btw - the "i didn't know" excuse didn't work to well for the people wrapped up in the caucas scandal.

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Postby Darthcrank » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:50 pm

Concerning a pattern of behavior as regards to the laws...

My only run-in with Dave personally was when he picked up his diner at New Orleans Takeout. I found it interesting that he was parked illegally while he waited for his food, and he was parked illegally awfully close to a bike path.

You'd think a mayor would at least obey the parking/no parking rules, especially when there were plenty of legal places to park.

pragmad
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Postby pragmad » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:20 am

Kanye Westsider wrote:
pragmad wrote:
Mister_A_In_Madison wrote:
pragmad wrote:No, the whole pt is the city doesn't have an elections bosrd. The state's will hear the case. Now. should they have looked up Madison's rule before answering? Yes, but that'd not the mayor's fault. His campaign asked the people who should hsve known.
-Pragmad


This, again, speaks to a pattern of behavior... this time, ignoring (or being ignorant of) city ordinances.

If you will recall, the Mayor suggested plastering advertising on the recycling bins... within a few weeks of the City Council banning sidewalk advertising.

How does banning sifewalk advertising relate to Recycle Bins? You mean bins on the sidewalk? There are a lot of bins not on sidewalks. And I doubt he had much to do w/ checking the election legallity. He prob asked his staff to check and they did. Now, the state's board should have checked the city ordinance because they hear any case. My guess is he won't have to pay because clearly they were given wrong info.
-Pragmad


dumbest. post. ever.

so you're saying that if somebody asks the european union about generic traffic laws, then drives in madison according to those laws. should they get off when they get pulled over for driving the wrong side of the road just because they were given "wrong" information? (btw - the information they were given wasn't "wrong". they were just too dumb to check local law).

Why should the election board have checked to see what local law is? The STATE elections board deals with STATE law. If you want to know local law, go to the local level. If you want to be able to just go one place and get all kinds of law, both state and local, hire an attorney.

btw - the "i didn't know" excuse didn't work to well for the people wrapped up in the caucas scandal.

You are missing the pt, maybe on purpose. The STATE ELECTIONS BOARD WILL HEAR ANY CASE that gets filed LOCALLY. THEY WILL NEED TO KNOW THE CITY'S LAW. It'll be really absurd for the board to essentially reverse themselves. I don't know, maybe the board didn't understand the question. Maybe it was a new employee who didn't know cities had local laws re: elections.
-Pragmad


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