In light of Alder King's compact fluorescent proposal...

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.
Paco
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Postby Paco » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:29 pm

Is he going to mandate how to dispose of them too? Since I'm sure he knows they contain mercury and can't be tossed in your recycle bin.

Bonzai444
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Postby Bonzai444 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:32 pm

Peanutbutter wrote:
Bonzai444 wrote:Shouldn't that be left up to the lanlord? What's next?


"Smoking banned in rental properties" is the next surprise the landlords have in store for them. Expect this idea to be floated soon after the spring election.

The landlords need to understand, it isn't really their property. The city just lets them take care of it, collect the rent & manage the small details.


Really? It isn't really their property? This is news to me. I guess I alway kind of assumed that since a lanlord of an apartment building OWNS the building he/she/they should probably be able to dictate what kind of fixtures to put in their building. This is the exact train of thought that scares the hell out of me when you talk about progressive political views. Sorry but you can't have it both ways people. Until the city actually purchases an apartment building, pays the mortgage, the taxes, the repair costs, etc., I'm pretty sure that the city should stay out of what kind of fucking light bulbs a lanlord wants to use.

Perhaps maybe the city council should start worrying about the kinds of they are supposed to worrying about:

City services
Public Safety
Water Quality
Effective and Cost Efficient Transportation
Escalating Property Taxes

You might do a better job convincing those of us who actually have to go to work for a living that we should be concerned with things like lightbulbs in apartment buildings if any of these core issues were actually being properly addressed.

ShaneDog
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Postby ShaneDog » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:32 pm

pulsewidth modulation wrote:It also "feels good" when PD sticks it to those evil home owners.

Sorry A. King, you're 4 years behind market forces. Market forces are greener than you could ever imagine.

Did you even read the proposal? If you had you would have known that it only applies to rental units. Maybe you should read something before forming an opinion on it.

ShaneDog
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Postby ShaneDog » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:33 pm

Paco wrote:Is he going to mandate how to dispose of them too? Since I'm sure he knows they contain mercury and can't be tossed in your recycle bin.
There are already laws that regulate this.

From the Streets & Recycling dept:

How to Recycle Fluorescent Lamps

Fluorescent Lamps have been banned from the Dane County Landfill.
The Dane County Landfill will no longer accept fluorescent lamps and bulbs. Because we cannot take old fluorescent's to the landfill, we will no longer be collecting them at the curb.

What Should I Do With My Old Fluorescent Tubes and Bulbs?

You should take your old fluorescent lamps back to any retail store that sells fluorescent lamps. Madison ordinances requires any store that sells fluorescent lamps and bulbs to take back old fluorescent's from their customers and get them recycled.

Stores are allowed to charge a fee for this service.

You can also take back old fluorescent's to one of three lamp recycling firms in the Madison area. They may also charge a fee for recycling your old bulbs.

For a listing of retailers that take back old fluorescent's and of the recycling firms, click here: Lamp Recyclers

Why Are Fluorescent Lamps Banned From The Landfill?
Fluorescent lamps contain mercury, one of the most hazardous substances in our homes. When the fluorescent lamps are put in a landfill the glass breaks and the mercury is released. The mercury is usually becomes part of leachate, the liquid that washes out of the bottom of the landfill. Landfills are designed with leachate collection systems. However, these systems can fail and the mercury containing leachate can leak into our groundwater. When the collection system works properly, the leachate is pumped to a sewerage treatment plant. Unfortunately, these plants cannot remove mercury and it gets released into our waterways.

Should I Still Use Fluorescent Lamps?
Definitely. Fluorescent lamps use less electricity and cut down on the mercury that is emitted from power plants. Anything we can do to reduce mercury emissions from power plants is very important. By using and then recycling fluorescent lamps you will be doing your part to keep mercury out of
our environment.

Recycle Mercury Thermostats (they have also been banned from the Dane County Landfill):
Thermostats containing mercury are also banned from landfills.
When you replace a thermostat, make sure you take the old thermostat back to the retailer where you purchased it. If you are having a thermostat replaced by a contractor make sure they will recycle the old one.

When you are replacing a thermostat plan to replace it with a digital one. Digital thermostats do not contain mercury and do a better job on controlling your furnace and/or air conditioner. This will help you reduce electrical or natural gas usage and save you money.

For more information on digital thermostats call Madison Gas and Electric at 252-7117 or visit their web site at www.mge.com.

Madison residents can also take mercury thermostats to Clean Sweep at 2602 Fish Hatchery Rd.
For information on Clean Sweep call 294-5366 or visit their web site at http://www.co.dane.wi.us/ems/cleansweep/cleansweep.htm]
Last edited by ShaneDog on Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ShaneDog » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:35 pm

I don't see this proposal being much different than mandating that builders follow a building code which requires that building meet certain safety, quality, and other agreed upon minimum standards.

I would have gone further and mandated that all light bulbs in owner-occupied, rental, and city buildings be replaced with fluorescent or LED-based bulbs. I would put a 5 or 10 year phaseout period to give people time to comply. Most people would recoup the costs in a few years from not having to buy bulbs to replaced burned out ones and from cheaper utility bills.

I haven't bought a new light bulb in 3 years since I switched to all floursecent. I have lived in apartments the whole time and moved 3 times, and I pull out all the incandescent bulbs when I move it and set them aside. Then I replace them with my fluorescent bulbs. When I move, I put the incandescent bulbs that I saved back in the fixtures and bring the flourescent bulbs with me to the new place. It works out pretty well.
Last edited by ShaneDog on Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

roadkill bill
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Postby roadkill bill » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:43 pm

Another positive of the proposal that the naysayers fail to notice is that CFLs save huge amounts of energy. When we are debating whether we should be closing down coal-fired plants, where to put ugly 345Kw transmission lines, air quality problems, and global warming, I would say that mandating energy-saving light bulbs is pretty minor stuff.

The LEDs in the exit lights are a safety issue. Since incandescents burn out so quickly, wouldn't having longer-lasting, more reliable bulbs in the emergency exit lights seem like a public safety issue?

California is phasing out incandescents everywhere, as is Australia.

I just wish CFLs didn't have those super-wide ballasts. They don't fit in all the old fixtures at my house.

jhain
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Postby jhain » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:48 pm

roadkill bill wrote:I just wish CFLs didn't have those super-wide ballasts. They don't fit in all the old fixtures at my house.


Look for "Buyer's Choice." Their 13 watt bulbs fit any fixture that a regular bulb fits.

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Postby roadkill bill » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:11 pm

jhain wrote:
roadkill bill wrote:I just wish CFLs didn't have those super-wide ballasts. They don't fit in all the old fixtures at my house.


Look for "Buyer's Choice." Their 13 watt bulbs fit any fixture that a regular bulb fits.


Thanks!

Are those widely available locally? Where?

lukpac
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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:11 pm

Bonzai444 wrote:Perhaps maybe the city council should start worrying about the kinds of they are supposed to worrying about:

City services
Public Safety
Water Quality
Effective and Cost Efficient Transportation
Escalating Property Taxes


Vote Mark Deadman.

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Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:14 pm

roadkill bill wrote:I just wish CFLs didn't have those super-wide ballasts. They don't fit in all the old fixtures at my house.


Haven't run into that too much yet. One annoying thing is I replaced all the bulbs on one side of my basement with CFLs, and while they work fine after they've been on a while, they seem to take forever to "warm up". Minutes rather than seconds.

jhain
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Postby jhain » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:45 pm

roadkill bill wrote:
jhain wrote:Look for "Buyer's Choice." Their 13 watt bulbs fit any fixture that a regular bulb fits.


Thanks!

Are those widely available locally? Where?


I don't remember where I picked those up.. I'm pretty sure the GE 13 watt ones will fit most applications and those are available at Ace. It seems like they have some sort of rebate every couple of months so it is worth watching.

Bonzai444
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Postby Bonzai444 » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:48 pm

lukpac wrote:
Bonzai444 wrote:Perhaps maybe the city council should start worrying about the kinds of they are supposed to worrying about:

City services
Public Safety
Water Quality
Effective and Cost Efficient Transportation
Escalating Property Taxes


Vote Mark Deadman.


Actually Lukpac, that is the exact reason I am voting for Deadman. When he came by my door, that's what he talked about, basic city services, not garbage progressive ideas like Basford and SRC did. To a working stiff like me they represent the issues that I think an alder on the city council should be concerning themself with.

And by the way, thank you for posting the Borchardt letter. I wasn't previously aware that they were looking for volunteers, and your posting brought it to my attention. I'll now be helping with a lit drop or two on the weekends.

Paco
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Postby Paco » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:56 pm

Mine are about 10 yrs old, they do take forever to warm up...I hear the newer ones are much, much faster.

I haven't found any bulbs to fit my lamps/lampshades. To use them, I'd need to buy new lamps.....so much for saving money on bulbs.

nevermore
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Postby nevermore » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:57 pm

Bonzai444 wrote:not garbage progressive ideas like Basford

For the record, my ideas are more sewer socialist than garbage progressive.

Not that I'd expect you to get that joke.

jhain
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Postby jhain » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:00 pm

Paco wrote:Mine are about 10 yrs old, they do take forever to warm up...I hear the newer ones are much, much faster.


The new ones are much faster.

Paco wrote:I haven't found any bulbs to fit my lamps/lampshades. To use them, I'd need to buy new lamps.....so much for saving money on bulbs.


You can pick up harp extentions for your lamps if you really can't find cfls that fit.


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