Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

How can cultural elitists like ourselves put TV in the Culture category? Well, where the hell else is it going to fit?
Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:42 am

Igor wrote:Something tells me if she had told MLK, Reagan, Obama, Kanye West, Bob Dylan, or a host of others to "Suck it" there would also have been a controversy.

Ditto Ducatista's and Shanedog's comments. Good comedy is about risk and pushing boundaries. That's pretty much Comedy 101.

But also - in what awards-show context would telling any of those people to "suck it" make sense?
People don't get onstage and say that any of the above-cited (I might add, non-imaginary) people are responsible for their accomplishments.

Igor wrote: Is there non-sincere thanking of God at these shows? Sure, but no more so than producers, co-stars, spouses, or parents.
Frankly, I find such examples equally insulting - sincere or not.
One of the most annoying things in the world is when people say things like, "we never could have done it without God's help" or "we won that game because God was on our side." Why? Because as a human being (who, like Kathy Griffin, can assure you, gets no help from God, Jesus, Buddha, The Easter Bunny, The Flying Spaghetti Monster or any other Unseen Force) I'm insulted by the notion that without supernatural help, I'd never get anything done. People accomplish some pretty fucking amazing things and I'm unsure why we should share the credit with whatever deity happens to be popular in whatever culture we just happen to have been born into. (Do people who believe that God "is either actively or passively involved in [their] life" think he's also responsible for the accomplishments of Bollywood actors, Indonesian CEOs, Batswanan garbage collectors and Japanese cable TV stars? Doncha think those folks might be a wee bit insulted by that notion too?) This is one of the fundamental problems I've always had with religion: If something good happens, you thank The Lord; If something bad happens, He works in mysterious ways. Well, I think that's pretty much a cop-out. Seems to me if you're gonna credit God for your accomplishments, you oughta lay the blame on him for all the crap, too. What kind of sick mind believes that God would take time to help Stevie Wonder pen a Grammy-winning song but didn't lift a finger to stop the destruction of New Orleans?

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Postby pulsewidth modulation » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:04 am

I think the public at large will take Miss Griffin's comments for what they are worth. She is a celebrity. It has been pointed out on this forum in the past that controversial or underrepresented subject matter portrayed by celebrities is trivial at best; they are entertainers. But, they have a point of view in a country that exemplifies open speech and communications. I don't see her comments as shocking considering some of the subject matter that is readily available for consumption these days.

There was a time in the USA when atheists, non deists, agnostics... whatever... were strictly scorned for, correctly, not believing that Jesus was their savior. Jesus is a man made construct and a lot of people know that now because the truth always leaks out in an open society. There is no reason to hang onto a feel good past as a means of feeling good; this past was proven inaccurate a long time ago. I know a woman names Jesus, she makes me feel good without the assistance of a church.

I'm glad Miss Griffin said what she said. Fuck the Catholics. Their sect has resided over and defended torture sessions and murders in order to protect what is now a known fantasy.

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby blunt » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:24 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
One of the most annoying things in the world is when people say things like, "we never could have done it without God's help" or "we won that game because God was on our side." Why? Because as a human being (who, like Kathy Griffin, can assure you, gets no help from God, Jesus, Buddha, The Easter Bunny, The Flying Spaghetti Monster or any other Unseen Force) I'm insulted by the notion that without supernatural help, I'd never get anything done. ?


Ditto to infinity.
The idea of God is so unecessary these days it hurts my head to even imagine people still clinging tenaciously to it.
I can be nice without God.
Praise the Lord when something good happens?
What about all the good that happens to evil fucks and athiests?
When something bad happens "it's God's will."
How conveeeenient.
Christian (and Jewish and Islamic) thought is so contrived and filled with circular logic (and no logic: "I believe because it's absurd"--Tertullianus) is pathetic----and frightening!
People afflicted with this stunted brain growth are running a large part of the planet!
Ugh.

I just thank the Lord He's given me the insight to understand and see through His bullshit.

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby lordofthecockrings » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:48 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Frankly, I find such examples equally insulting - sincere or not.
One of the most annoying things in the world is when people say things like, "we never could have done it without God's help" ....

Likewise, overuse of the word "miracle" demeans us all.

Some poor child gets pulled from a well after 250 guys bust their asses for four days digging holes and risking their lives to pull the little rugrat out and all we hear is "it's a miracle!" No, actually, it's a momentous and spectacular human achievement! Screw divine intervention! You mean to tell me God gets the credit for pulling our heroic strings when he could have just prevented the near-tragedy in the first place? Talk about fucked up.

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby supaunknown » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:27 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:The Flying Spaghetti Monster

Scares the crap out of me.

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Postby Igor » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:12 pm

pulsewidth modulation wrote:I'm glad Miss Griffin said what she said. Fuck the Catholics. Their sect has resided over and defended torture sessions and murders in order to protect what is now a known fantasy.


Atheist leaders long ago passed religious ones in total murder and torture tonnage, FWIW.

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby Igor » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:02 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:This is one of the fundamental problems I've always had with religion: If something good happens, you thank The Lord; If something bad happens, He works in mysterious ways. Well, I think that's pretty much a cop-out. Seems to me if you're gonna credit God for your accomplishments, you oughta lay the blame on him for all the crap, too. What kind of sick mind believes that God would take time to help Stevie Wonder pen a Grammy-winning song but didn't lift a finger to stop the destruction of New Orleans?


Different people have different beliefs, but not everyone believes in God as a puppeteer, controlling all decisions on Earth. As far as New Orleans goes, it seems to me that humans built a city in a swamp below sea level, affected the delta and coastal wetlands, failed to develop an evacuation plan, and didn't respond quickly after the disaster. Now, humans are talking about how big a wall we need to build to keep the water out of the swamp the next time.

Not gonna debate the religion point anymore... KG is not getting censored - governments censor. Her speech is getting edited because a company feels that a sizable chunk of their audience would find it offensive. Convenient, since the statements were designed to be offensive to some. (Note that I am not implying that any intelligence or design is involved in anything that comes out of KG's mouth)

There are many other technically clean statements that would have resulted in the same editing or bleeping. And there are certainly ways that she could have made the point that she is atheist, that wouldn't have resulted in this situation.

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby sydgrl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:19 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:One of the most annoying things in the world is when people say things like, "we never could have done it without God's help" or "we won that game because God was on our side." Why?

In response to this habit amongst reality show contestants, one of the recappers on the TelevisionWithoutPity web site retorted with something along the lines of "I guess God was in the bathtub" when the contestant(s) lost.

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Postby pulsewidth modulation » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:43 am

Igor wrote:Atheist leaders long ago passed religious ones in total murder and torture tonnage, FWIW.


Link please! By the way, any manuscripts created/manufactured by the cathloic church do not count. The catholic church is known to lie in order to defend the un-defendable; such as covering up the rape of young boys by the clergy.

After you link to verifiable 3rd party reports supporting your claims, we can compare and contrast them to such events as the: Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, events leading up to the Protestant Reformation, and the current state of Catholic flirtations with the apocalypse (because if they can't have it their way, ya'll gonna die!).

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Re: Hooray for Kathy Griffin!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:21 am

Igor wrote: KG is not getting censored
Just curious if you just wanted to make a fresh point (which I agree with) or if you actually think you're arguing with someone, 'cuz nobody's mentioned censorship until this post. I did point out that Griffin's comments will not air, but I didn't make a judgment about that decision, nor did any other posters on this thread. Neither the Academy nor any TV station is under any obligation to air any portion of the Emmy ceremony for any reason whatsoever and I see no reason to criticize anyone for their decision to edit KG's comments. I've seen no indication that Griffin feels any differently - whether it airs or not, she's got new material for her stand-up routine.

Igor wrote:And there are certainly ways that she could have made the point that she is atheist, that wouldn't have resulted in this situation.

See, I think you missed her point completely if you think she was expressing her personal views about religion or her lack of it. She was merely making fun of other celebrities, as doing so is pretty much her entire act.

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Postby Marvell » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:13 pm

pulsewidth modulation wrote:After you link to verifiable 3rd party reports supporting your claims, we can compare and contrast them to such events as the: Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, events leading up to the Protestant Reformation


Not to mention the decimation of the various native populations of Asia, Africa and the Americas by European imperialism - the justification for which was largely based on 'Christian' theology.

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Postby Ducatista » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:27 pm

All good points. On the other hand... fish fry.

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Postby Marvell » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:36 pm

Ducatista wrote:All good points. On the other hand... fish fry.


Make sure the bluegill is bursting with auto-de-freshness!

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Postby Ducatista » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:51 pm

The fish fry is the sin. The post-fry purge is the penance. Mmmmmm, penance.

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Postby Igor » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:54 am

pulsewidth modulation wrote:
Igor wrote:Atheist leaders long ago passed religious ones in total murder and torture tonnage, FWIW.


Link please! By the way, any manuscripts created/manufactured by the cathloic church do not count. The catholic church is known to lie in order to defend the un-defendable; such as covering up the rape of young boys by the clergy.

After you link to verifiable 3rd party reports supporting your claims, we can compare and contrast them to such events as the: Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, events leading up to the Protestant Reformation, and the current state of Catholic flirtations with the apocalypse (because if they can't have it their way, ya'll gonna die!).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_toll

Pol Pot kills more people before 6 AM than most inquisitors do all day.

Based on the numbers on the above link, the ranking would be secular conflicts/disasters, followed by atheist internal purges, followed by religous wars.

Not saying those events aren't tragic, but the standard line about religion causing most of the world's wars is so off the mark that it is laughable. Even in conflicts with a religious component like Northern Ireland - do you really think the Irish would be okay with the Brits being there if the Church of England rejoined the Catholic Church?


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