Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

What books, zines or other pulp are you reading? What aren't you reading? What should everyone else read?
Big_Sister
Senior Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:21 pm
Location: east of the Yahara, west of the interstate

Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Big_Sister » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Generation unbound : drifting into sex and parenthood without marriage

by Sawhill, Isabel V .

Publisher: 2014 Brookings Inst Pr . Description: xiv, 209 pages : illusrations ; 24 cm . ISBN: 9780815725589.

Enhanced Descriptions from Syndetics:

Over half of all births to young adults in the United States now occur outside of marriage, and many are unplanned. The result is increased poverty and inequality for children. The left argues for more social support for unmarried parents; the right argues for a return to traditional marriage. In Generation Unbound , Isabel V. Sawhill offers a third approach: change "drifters" into "planners." In a well-written and accessible survey of the impact of family structure on child well-being, Sawhill contrasts "planners," who are delaying parenthood until after they marry, with "drifters," who are having unplanned children early and outside of marriage. These two distinct patterns are contributing to an emerging class divide and threatening social mobility in the United States. Sawhill draws on insights from the new field of behavioral economics, showing that it is possible, by changing the default, to move from a culture that accepts a high number of unplanned pregnancies to a culture in which adults only have children when they are ready to be a parent.


NOW ONORDER AT THE SOUTH CENTRAL WISCONSIN LIBRARY SYSTEM

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:29 pm

The left argues for more social support for unmarried parents; the right argues for a return to traditional marriage. In Generation Unbound , Isabel V. Sawhill offers a third approach: change "drifters" into "planners."

Doesn't sound like a third approach. Everybody would like people to delay childbirth until marriage.

Sawhill draws on insights from the new field of behavioral economics, showing that it is possible, by changing the default, to move from a culture that accepts a high number of unplanned pregnancies to a culture in which adults only have children when they are ready to be a parent.

Behavioral economics? Does this remove welfare benefits per child? Main problem is that the potential husbands have no jobs that can support a family.

gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 8641
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby gargantua » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:19 pm

You know, I really don't mean to be disrespectful. But my reaction to this was, OF COURSE it's better to wait until people are ready to have babies to actually have babies. Is there some nuance here that I'm missing?

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 14644
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby snoqueen » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:57 pm

In this discussion, "being married" is just a proxy for people responsible for a baby having adequate employment, affordable and high quality child care, affordable and accessible healthcare, stable and safe housing, enough education to function as a productive member of society, and no issues with domestic violence, drug usage, and other unsafe conditions for raising a child.

Why not focus on being sure people raising kids have those basic amenities, instead of distorting the issue by bringing in marriage? Statistically, kids in homes with married parents do better than those with a single parent, but it's because they are more likely to have the other advantages I mentioned. For example, a kid with married parents but exposed to drugs and abuse is disadvantaged. A kid with married parents who are unable to find employment and lack a high school education is disadvantaged.

Marriage isn't a cure all and doesn't override other extensive deficits.

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:10 pm

snoqueen wrote:Marriage isn't a cure all and doesn't override other extensive deficits.


Right, but you are suggesting that marriage is unimportant. It is important for two reasons, at least:
1) It creates a more stable relationship, people are more likely to work out problems rather than split if they make a commitment. Good for kids.
2) All the nice conditions you listed are correlated to being married. Doesn't necessarily prove that marriage caused the good environment, but it suggests something worthwhile is there.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 14644
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby snoqueen » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:26 pm

I figured that'd get you going.

fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby fennel » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:48 pm

snoqueen wrote:I figured that'd get you going.

No kidding.
Huckleby wrote:Right, but you are suggesting that marriage is unimportant. It is important for two reasons, at least:
1) It creates a more stable relationship, people are more likely to work out problems rather than split if they make a commitment. Good for kids.

That fanciful notion of marriage calls to mind Disney-era fantasies of the 1950s. A state-sponsored certificate doesn't render parents more stable or responsible, any more than state-sponsored conscription makes professional soldiers of teenagers.

Marriage is unimportant, generally. When it is important, it has to do with the relationship between two persons — and the responsibilities they've chosen to take on.

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:16 pm

fennel wrote: That fanciful notion of marriage calls to mind Disney-era fantasies of the 1950s. A state-sponsored certificate doesn't render parents more stable or responsible, any more than state-sponsored conscription makes professional soldiers of teenagers.


Why do you suppose that children of married parents are doing so much better?

fennel wrote: Marriage is unimportant, generally.


Gay marriage advocates seem to think it is awfully important.

The devaluing of marriage over the past 50 years has been a terrible mistake, the evidence is in. 72% of African American kids are born to unmarried parents. Could that be a problem?

fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5060
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby fennel » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:29 pm

Huckleby wrote:
fennel wrote: That fanciful notion of marriage calls to mind Disney-era fantasies of the 1950s. A state-sponsored certificate doesn't render parents more stable or responsible, any more than state-sponsored conscription makes professional soldiers of teenagers.

Why do you suppose that children of married parents are doing so much better?
Golly, I don't know.
Why do you suppose that children of married parents are all suffering from radiation poisoning and have secret Swiss bank accounts?

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:59 pm


Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:00 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... eason-why/

Making single parents get married, in other words, won't fundamentally change the other characteristics about them that really drive their children's success. The good news in this is that family income and parenting skills are more realistically addressed through public policy than marriage anyway.


Nobody proposed "making single parents get married."

Public policy can make marriage more attractive. That starts with availability of husbands who can help support a family. (Ya, I know in theory that men and women are supposed to share child caring and money earning, but that works out more practically for middle class people. The single parent families are skewed poor.) I think this author is naive in thinking that public policy can ever be crafted that will be able to replace the advantages of a two-parent family living together. All sorts of economic and emotional advatages there.

The argument is not that we should return to 1950s where alternative families were disparaged. We all know single parent families that raise wonderful kids, it can be done.

The argument is that we need to move past the 1970s when people thought marriage might be archaic. The experiments have been run.

DCB
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4577
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby DCB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 pm

fennel wrote:
Huckleby wrote:
fennel wrote: That fanciful notion of marriage calls to mind Disney-era fantasies of the 1950s. A state-sponsored certificate doesn't render parents more stable or responsible, any more than state-sponsored conscription makes professional soldiers of teenagers.

Why do you suppose that children of married parents are doing so much better?
Golly, I don't know.
Why do you suppose that children of married parents are all suffering from radiation poisoning and have secret Swiss bank accounts?

You've got the causation all wrong.

Couples with secret Swiss bank accounts can afford to married. Then they get radiation treatments for their children to turn them into powerful X-Men.

That's why those kids are doing so much better.

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:19 pm

In summary, not only is the research suggesting marriage benefits children irrelevant, it must be suppressed. Deal with difficult questions with ridicule.

Such brittle, narrow minds.

The causes and effects of why children of unmarried parents are doing relatively poorly are not clear. Denying the reality is lame.

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6073
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:59 am
Contact:

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:33 pm

Huckleby wrote:Such brittle, narrow minds.


You can get off your high horse anytime. I know a number of single family parents(male and female) and they're doing awesome. Anecdotal yes, but at least not as condescending as "Mr. Open Mindedness"

Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 9947
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Madison inequality/achievement gap/etc

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:38 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Such brittle, narrow minds.


You can get off your high horse anytime. I know a number of single family parents(male and female) and they're doing awesome. Anecdotal yes, but at least not as condescending as "Mr. Open Mindedness"


I did not condescend to single family parents one iota, on the contrary, I made the point that many are successful.

Huckleby wrote: The argument is not that we should return to 1950s where alternative families were disparaged. We all know single parent families that raise wonderful kids, it can be done.


The OP started conversation with an assertion:
Big_Sister wrote: Over half of all births to young adults in the United States now occur outside of marriage, and many are unplanned. The result is increased poverty and inequality for children.


The correlation between married parents and rates of graduation, other hopeful measures, is strong. Dealing with reality should not invite name calling.


Return to “Books”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest