Adam Powell on the state of online community

Comments on the paper, the website, the mobile site and all other Isthmus-generated products go here.
jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby jjoyce » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:39 pm

Incidentally, is what Stebben just did a ban-worthy offense in a set of "well laid out rules"?

Oops! That's consecutive posts on the same topic!

fisticuffs
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Slightly outside of Madison
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:42 pm

Incidentally, is what Stebben just did a ban-worthy offense in a set of "well laid out rules"?


The original should have been edited by an admin long ago, Stebben just quoted what you already let stand. Clearly active moderation isn't going to happen by Isthmus staff. Have you considered rotating member moderation?

Stebben84
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6073
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:45 pm

jjoyce wrote:Incidentally, is what Stebben just did a ban-worthy offense in a set of "well laid out rules"?

Oops! That's consecutive posts on the same topic!


That was part of my point. I think the original post should have been pulled and that person warned about doing it again.

jjoyce wrote:ban the guys I don't like


I don't think anyone has ever said that.

thebookpolice
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 8597
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: The mystical Far East
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby thebookpolice » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:48 pm

jjoyce wrote:If anyone has an actual proposal here substantially different from "ban the guys I don't like," I'm all ears.

How about Cornbread's repeated use of dogwhistle-esque language when posting about African Americans? "Snigglet" (not actually a word, so I don't know what else he could have meant) in a reference to a comment made by Whoopi Goldberg. "Inkspot" in a reference to the attack on Monteé Ball. I don't think either of these are incidental.

(I also don't buy for a second that his indirect claims of being a minority are even a little legitimate, and that his very username is chosen to be vaguely inflammatory, but I've got less evidence for that.)

minicat
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4538
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:22 pm
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby minicat » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:49 pm

Vinnie P wrote:I'm not going to mention names because that will just lead to a fight, but there are certain people here that I try really hard not to talk to at all.
As a result, there are a LOT of discussions that I just stay out of.


+1.

I'm not much in favor of using the banhammer for any reason short of legal issues. But some of our "conservative" "friends" currently destroying this board are just flat-out provocateurs who contribute no sort of real dialogue. It has nothing to do with political position (if the spew can be considered a position), it has to do with the dishonesty of their approach. There is usually no real debate, it's just various talking points arranged to fit the situation, propped up by a constant use of the reverse victimization ploy when anyone negates their "argument." These posters make me long for the halcyon days when Blaska was the worst we had.

We all know who is doing this. They should be banned.

Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby Detritus » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:01 pm

jjoyce wrote:If anyone has an actual proposal here substantially different from "ban the guys I don't like," I'm all ears.

Yeah, good question! Nobody on this forum--on this very thread--has made any suggestions for how to improve the situation.

The work point is totally valid. What do you think would be a good amount of time and money to spend administering fist's "well laid out rules" (which I've still never seen work on a board at al similar to this one)? What about on weekends? How many additional staffers would be necessary? Are you familiar with the term profitable?

See previous comment.

jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby jjoyce » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:11 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:How about Cornbread's repeated use of dogwhistle-esque language when posting about African Americans?


Are you seriously recommending a rule against "dogwhistle-esque" language?

You all seem to want a large commitment from me in lieu of any commitment from you. I'm supposed to now read every post, police the board 24/7, give up other aspects of my job and life so you don't have to try and ignore the trolls. I'm not trying to mischaracterize what anyone has said, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any of you say, "I'll try to avoid the a-holes if you try to do X." You're asking me to stick my neck out... will you have my back in any sort of meaningful way?

I'm asking you to seek consensus for even one rule you propose. Give me a behavior that we definitely shouldn't stand for and show me a bunch of people -- like 20 or 30 -- who agree with you. Even though it's pretty much impossible for two people on this board to agree on what day it is, I'm not being facetious. And if your response is "that's your job," then your investment in the community is insignificant.

So far, I haven't seen a single proposal for a rule that would actually work. I've been doing this in one form or another for like 13 years. Do you really think we haven't thought about this? I have an email folder labeled "Forum Bullshit."

fisticuffs
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Slightly outside of Madison
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:19 pm

I have an email folder labeled "Forum Bullshit."


Sounds like contempt for community. Maybe Jjoyce should be banned. You get a paycheck for this. Many of us have been ignoring the trolls. It only takes one which is why your policy of non-moderation is as doomed a failure as anything that's been proposed. We can see the proof one click away.

Could you not even edit the Zzzzzz post? You clearly didn't like it when it was quoted. What is it would you say that you do here?

thebookpolice
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 8597
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: The mystical Far East
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby thebookpolice » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:20 pm

jjoyce wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:How about Cornbread's repeated use of dogwhistle-esque language when posting about African Americans?

Are you seriously recommending a rule against "dogwhistle-esque" language?

I'm recommending that his pattern of what I'd call racially charged language (the faux Southern accent, the username, the above examples) should start to weigh against the alleged value of his presence on Forum. It's straight-up "contempt for the community," which is still a sticky at the top of this section.

You can say that we should all ignore him, and that his invective would then be akin to shouting swear words in an empty room, offending no one. But this isn't an empty room, and he's getting more offensive.

Meade advocating street justice capital punishment for simple assault is pretty offensive, too, but that's mostly just for how stupid an idea it is.

fisticuffs
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Slightly outside of Madison
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:23 pm

This board does reflect on the Isthmus brand. If you can't moderate it because of staffing concerns and profitability maybe you should just get rid of it altogether and stick to comments on articles.

Adam Powell
Forum Addict
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby Adam Powell » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:41 pm

I first encountered Craig Newmark on the WELL as <cnewmark> just before he started Craigslist, so he's been around.

Just a few minutes ago he published this:

"If you want to keep it simple, just remember that 'haters gonna hate,  and trolls gonna troll,' and there's nothing you can do about it except starve 'em.

"The broad context is that there are people always looking to feel offended about something. They feel good when they're outraged about something, maybe they feel good ONLY when they're outraged. I don't know about official psychiatric definitions, but as far as I'm concerned, it's addiction.

"We might just have to outwait and survive the trolls, which is no fun at all."

http://craigconnects.org/2012/08/trolls ... ction.html

Kind of bleak, I know. But it reinforces the point: the dynamic goes both ways. If you can't stop yourself from responding to a problem user, maybe you're part of the problem.

This conversation has at times been a meta-exploration of that dynamic.

scratch
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:00 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby scratch » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:45 pm

jjoyce wrote:Friends tend not to tell me their usernames


But you periodically make negative remarks about forons who don't use their real names. Is it only a problem when they're not your friends?

The reason Meade uses his real name is connected to his back and forth with the Althouse blog. He's trying to establish a public name for himself and gain recognition that would make him seem to be equal in intellectual and political heft to his significant other.

Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby Detritus » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:45 pm

jjoyce wrote:You all seem to want a large commitment from me in lieu of any commitment from you. I'm supposed to now read every post, police the board 24/7, give up other aspects of my job and life so you don't have to try and ignore the trolls. I'm not trying to mischaracterize what anyone has said, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any of you say, "I'll try to avoid the a-holes if you try to do X." You're asking me to stick my neck out... will you have my back in any sort of meaningful way?

As I believe I mentioned elsewhere, I have gone from 1 ignored account (congrats, radboy, you're my first!) to 11. I do my best to truly ignore them, and took part in the active group ignore of PeanutButter that led to his meltdown and your ejection of him.

You know, it's not all or nothing here. Cornbread is clearly pushing the envelope with not 2 but 7 consecutive trash-filled posts in multiple threads. Do you really need to "read every post, police the board 24/7, give up other aspects of my job and life" to see that?

So far, I haven't seen a single proposal for a rule that would actually work. I've been doing this in one form or another for like 13 years. Do you really think we haven't thought about this? I have an email folder labeled "Forum Bullshit."

You have a perfectly good set of criteria that is behavior oriented, not content oriented. How about you use them? How about you respond to suggestions like community moderation etc. in some fashion other than "what the hell, clicks are clicks" or "they'll just come back under another name?"

jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby jjoyce » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:55 pm

Nominate a person who you think is qualified to be a community moderator who would actually take the job.

jman111
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3997
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: Adam Powell on the state of online community

Postby jman111 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:56 pm

jjoyce wrote:You all seem to want a large commitment from me in lieu of any commitment from you. I'm supposed to now read every post, police the board 24/7, give up other aspects of my job and life so you don't have to try and ignore the trolls. I'm not trying to mischaracterize what anyone has said, but I'm pretty sure I haven't seen any of you say, "I'll try to avoid the a-holes if you try to do X." You're asking me to stick my neck out... will you have my back in any sort of meaningful way?

I think you're off base here. It's clear that you want some sympathy, but let's be real. It would take about 60 seconds (sometimes 6 would do) on any given day to see that CB contributes nothing positive here. Not promoting the banhammer, but his trollery is like "hard-core pornography"- hard to define but you know it when you see it.

I agree with opposition to the implementation of specific rules. Those who choose to annoy will always find a way around the rules or argue that the rules are being unfairly applied. For what it's worth, I suggest a common-sense approach to dealing with those who clearly act against the best interests of this forum. Don't you know it when you see it?


Return to “Comments on Isthmus & isthmus.com”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests