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Detritus
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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby Detritus » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:25 am

snoqueen wrote:This is another totally fake argument dreamed up to distract discussion away from real news and real current events, including the fact the Republican Party has not appealed to minority voters since Reconstruction.

Thanks, sno--I had to make it a little more specific, though....

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby HamsterArmageddon » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:54 am

snoqueen wrote:I'm fed up with this trying to lump the Isthmus forum in with the GOP on the basis of too much whiteness.

First off, the Isthmus forum is not a national political party with senators and representatives who have the power to make social policy.

Second, the Isthmus has not had its own presidential candidate using language that is so specifically offensive black voters understand it immediately and wouldn't vote for that candidate under any circumstances. (Don't waste time pretending to ask what I'm talking about. If you don't know by now, no one can help you.)

The Isthmus, on the other hand, is a small weekly newspaper in a small midwestern city and has very little effect on national politics. If we're too white here, the whole city and the whole state and the whole upper midwest are probably too white too. We can wish it was different, but apologizing for it over and over isn't going to change much. And the demographics will take care of themselves over time, believe me (or visit a Madison grade school).

This is another totally fake argument dreamed up to distract discussion away from real news and real current events, including the fact the Republican Party has not appealed to minority voters in recent elections.


^^^This post is unmistakably white.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby gargantua » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:15 pm

HamsterArmageddon wrote:
snoqueen wrote:I'm fed up with this trying to lump the Isthmus forum in with the GOP on the basis of too much whiteness.

First off, the Isthmus forum is not a national political party with senators and representatives who have the power to make social policy.

Second, the Isthmus has not had its own presidential candidate using language that is so specifically offensive black voters understand it immediately and wouldn't vote for that candidate under any circumstances. (Don't waste time pretending to ask what I'm talking about. If you don't know by now, no one can help you.)

The Isthmus, on the other hand, is a small weekly newspaper in a small midwestern city and has very little effect on national politics. If we're too white here, the whole city and the whole state and the whole upper midwest are probably too white too. We can wish it was different, but apologizing for it over and over isn't going to change much. And the demographics will take care of themselves over time, believe me (or visit a Madison grade school).

This is another totally fake argument dreamed up to distract discussion away from real news and real current events, including the fact the Republican Party has not appealed to minority voters in recent elections.


^^^This post is unmistakably white.


Wow. Thank you for sharing your genius with us mere mortals.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby city2countrygal » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:22 pm

bdog wrote:Well C2CG you seem to be the only one who is willing to discuss this, or even acknowledge the fact.

Thanks, bdog. Like I said earlier, acknowledging the fact does not presuppose that agree with it, just that I'm willing to see that it's there. Kinda like how, before I lived in Madison, I had this idealistic view of the city as one big melting pot, kinda like Vancouver, but then once I lived here for a few years, I was able to look back on the conversation with my friend from Milwaukee, and see why she asked me that question. If I have a fault, it's that I'm too idealistic.

bdog wrote:I agree nonwhites probably don't find either the GOP primary or TDPF relatable. But in reality both of them are relatable aren't they? The winner of the GOP primary may be our next President; how is that not relatable?

I'm going to actually back down from my statement that TDPF is not relatable. It does have to do with everyday life and politics for the people of Madison. However, I still do not think the GOP is relatable to minorities or women. Not relatable in the way that they don't reach out to those groups or try to represent them in any fashion. Yes relatable in the fact that I would have to deal with it if it were to actually happen, which I don't think it will, once Obama starts debating. But then again crazier shit has happened. In that case,
I'll suffer through like the Bush years, or maybe I will move to Vancouver.

bdog wrote:As far as TDPF, we have actual decision makers that participate here from time to time (and Stu Levitan's television program "Access City Hall" takes questions exclusively from TDPF). I think these decision makers would appreciate a non-white perspective.

Thanks for the heads up on that bdog. I respect Stu Levitan on TDPF and will look for the Access City Hall show.

bdog wrote:And Forons, protest all you want but you do not have a non-white perspective.

I think about it more like having a human perspective. What is really getting my goat on TDPF is how a white perspective is presupposed, and thus responded to in the manner, even when it's not intended that way. It's putting the burdon of proof on the poster, when it's the actual interpretation that's the problem. Think about it.

bdog wrote:This forum is, and needs to be, relatable.

Agreed. In hindsight I now regret saying TDPF is not relatable. I just have a hard time relating sometimes. Detritus, I now have a new gentleman cartoonist to enjoy. Thank you.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby jasonx5 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:29 pm

I'm not sure how anyone here can stand up and say they like a group of people who have a DIFFERENT skin color than themselves, and yet sit and do all of the name calling to someone who has DIFFERENT set of political beliefs.
True colors show through when we really see how we treat or accept those who are different than us individually.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby wack wack » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:33 pm

jasonx5 wrote:I'm not sure how anyone here can stand up and say they like a group of people who have a DIFFERENT skin color than themselves, and yet sit and do all of the name calling to someone who has DIFFERENT set of political beliefs.
True colors show through when we really see how we treat or accept those who are different than us individually.


How old are you, ten? Do you really need this explained?

Your political beliefs are chosen by you, your skin color is not.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby jman111 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:41 pm

I'm not sure how you cannot see that it's certain "political beliefs" that show the true colors of those attacking "those who are different".
When your political beliefs appear to center on attacks on others, your beliefs are ripe for criticism.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby city2countrygal » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:46 pm

jasonx5 wrote:I'm not sure how anyone here can stand up and say they like a group of people who have a DIFFERENT skin color than themselves, and yet sit and do all of the name calling to someone who has DIFFERENT set of political beliefs.
True colors show through when we really see how we treat or accept those who are different than us individually.

If that's directed at me, which I'm assuming it is, what name calling have I done? I will apologize if I have offended any GOPs (besides Newt). It's not his political opinions I disagree with so much (well, some I do, he's all over the place, "station on the moon") as I disagree with his morality and the way he lives his life and treats people.
I could say the same about John Edwards, although prob not to the same degree.

And I'm not afraid to say that or that I recognize the difference between your beliefs and your ethics. Because of the challenge of seeing the GOP as relatable, I have been studying more about them, and the only admirable thing I found last week was Mark Rubio's comments on immigration. I can't judge anything else about Rubio, because I've only looked into that one subject. And again I admit I'm not looking very deeply. But I am looking ...

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby Marvell » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:48 pm

bdog wrote: I agree nonwhites probably don't find either the GOP primary or TDPF relatable. But in reality both of them are relatable aren't they? The winner of the GOP primary may be our next President; how is that not relatable?
[...]
And Forons, protest all you want but you do not have a non-white perspective.

This forum is, and needs to be, relatable.


A couple things about this.

First of all, while I agree that it would be in the best interests of Isthmus Forum to be 'relatable' to a broad audience, whether it speaks to a specific ethnic audience or not is optional. A national political party, by definition, is supposed to be representing the interests of all Americans, regardless of their specific ethnic heritage. To conflate the two situations as being somehow analogous is the height of fatuity.

Furthermore, your actual statements on the subject make me (to put it mildly) suspicious of your capacity to speak intelligently on the topic. After all, you are the one who repeatedly suggested that the reason that there was so little black participation in the South Carolina G.O.P. primary is because 'they' didn't 'understand the process.' To point out that this statement is mind-boggleingly patronizing and shallow would be the understatement of the year. 'These' people have, after all, lived through Jim Crow (either themselves or their parents or grandparents), the Civil Rights period, have seen John McCain accused of fathering a bastard black child in the 2000 primary, have witnessed the full vote caging and voter ID efforts of the G.O.P. and understand full fucking well - as you clearly do not - that these latter efforts are specifically intended to suppress their participation in the political process.

If they reject the G.O.P. it's because they're not as stupid and ignorant as you. Them's the facts; read 'em and feel all the shame you are due.

Lastly, the notion that because one is white one has not ability or need to comment on the racial politics of our nation has to be pretty much the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard. It's like saying that a vegetarian shouldn't offer an opinion on the undermining of food safety regulations regarding meat production - what the hell does the one thing have to do with the other.

bdog = spectacular logic fail.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby jasonx5 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:49 pm

jman111 wrote:I'm not sure how you cannot see that it's certain "political beliefs" that show the true colors of those attacking "those who are different".
When your political beliefs appear to center on attacks on others, your beliefs are ripe for criticism.

You'll note that I was constant in expressing "WE" in my post on how we treat those we perceive as different.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby jman111 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:59 pm

We'll note that I was constant in expressing "YOU" in my post on how one cannot see that one's "political beliefs" based on attacks on dissimilar others reveals one's true colors and opens one up to criticism.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:38 pm

Marvell wrote:Furthermore, your actual statements on the subject make me (to put it mildly) suspicious of your capacity to speak intelligently on the topic. After all, you are the one who repeatedly suggested that the reason that there was so little black participation in the South Carolina G.O.P. primary is because 'they' didn't 'understand the process.' To point out that this statement is mind-boggleingly patronizing and shallow would be the understatement of the year.

Marvell you are so full of shit. This is my post that you pulled "didn't understand the process" from:

bdog wrote:It's an odd situation. We don't know what non-white voters were thinking. Since it's an open primary State there was nothing to prevent them from going to the polls (besides the usual logistics), and there were reasons they should have voted.

Did they not understand the process? Were they afraid? Were they encouraged not to go? Were they intimidated not to go? Was it a flash boycott?


- First off I did not repeatedly suggest they did not understand the process. I only asked it as a question this one time. You pulled "repeatedly suggested" straight out of your ass.

- It was lumped in with a series of other QUESTIONS, not suggestions. Or do you think I was suggesting they were also afraid, encouraged not to go, intimidated and boycotting ALL at the same time?

- People on this forum didn't understand the process (had to ask if it was an open primary State)! WTF? It's an honest question!

And you are questioning my intelligence?

Go back to your shitty karaoke son. I hope you get more words right.
Last edited by bdog on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:43 pm

scratch wrote:
bdog wrote:And Forons, protest all you want but you do not have a non-white perspective.


Nor do you, DogBoy, but that hardly keeps your from yacking as if you did.

Really? Point to the quote where I did that.

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:49 pm

snoqueen wrote:First off, the Isthmus forum is not a national political party with senators and representatives who have the power to make social policy.

No but we have a few locals that contribute here that do have the power to make social policy (and at least one ex-Mayor lurker that I imagine has considerable influence).

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Re: TDPF: whites only

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:57 pm

Marvell wrote:Lastly, the notion that because one is white one has not ability or need to comment on the racial politics of our nation has to be pretty much the stupidest fucking thing I have ever heard.

I had to break this up into 2 responses because you're such a FUCKING IDIOT.

I assume you pulled the above rant straight out of your ass too. How the hell do you relate that to anything I posted?

If anything my point is that whites should not be the ONLY ones commenting on the racial politics of our nation, or closer to home - Madison Prep!!!

How many stupid pills did you take today? The whole damn bottle.


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