Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

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jman111
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Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Yep. We're here to discuss the hypocrisy of criticizing the "clear agenda" of those new members who, in their first or second post to TDPF, choose to question the motivation behind the comment(s) of a "foron". please look here if you want to understand this rant

Why do some "forons" feel they can question the motivation of newcomers but not vice versa? Why is the opinion of a newcomer any less applicable than that of a long-established member? Why is it that newcomers are almost always attacked for expressing their opinions on local eating establishments? Why should newcomers have to post on several topics before they are welcomed to "the community"? Why do the few think they can speak for the masses? Why do some members refuse to respond when the questions become difficult?

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:43 pm

When someone's first post is a rave review for a place of business, it leads to suspicions. And when someone asks that poster if they own or work for that business and they don't reply, suspicions confirmed.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:55 pm

Suspicions confirmed? Seriously?

What if they haven't stopped back (to the forum) yet to answer your question?
What if they had been reading here for a long time and only now decided to post based on their STRONG feelings in favor of an establishment (hence post #1)?

Suspicions supported, perhaps, but not confirmed (in my Book, at least).

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby swoon_queen » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:02 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:When someone's first post is a rave review for a place of business, it leads to suspicions. And when someone asks that poster if they own or work for that business and they don't reply, suspicions confirmed.


But what if they are forthright and explain exactly who they are? In this example, the two posters who were chastised both introduced themselves: one as a longtime friend of La Rocca's owners, the other as a frequent customer and writer who reviewed La Rocca's. What's wrong with what they did? If someone was posting negative feedback about a local place that I love, I'd probably answer to it, especially if it was owned by friends of mine.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby swoon_queen » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:06 pm

I weighed in on this in a similar thread a while back... the first-time poster didn't post again, it seems, or at least not under the same name.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby supaunknown » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:12 pm

Henry said it. When a new member posts either praise or piss about a business, it can seem rather suspect. We wonder about ulterior motives. We've seen it many times before, most especially on restaurant threads. If your friend the newbie was legit and just sharing an honest opinion, sorry they got hassled. Forons have been conditioned to be suspicious.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:16 pm

Spoofery happens--plain and simple. It happens on Eating in Madison A to Z, for example; see the review for Kollege Klub. It has happened on TDPF, at least once that I can confirm. That person copped to it privately, and said it was a shenanigan no longer employed, so I choose to keep it behind my teeth. It's also a restaurant that I enjoy, and wouldn't want to see it unduly maligned--how's that for an agenda?

Also, since I think jman finds me primarily objectionable in this discussion, I'd like to point out that I didn't go after crumpet33 in the MSCo thread because that post didn't feel shilly at all, to me.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:19 pm

And, really, what if the new poster actually is the owner (or employee) and doesn't identify him/herself. Is (s)he not entitled to his/her opinion, as well? As long as it is not blatant advertisement ("Mention this post and get 20 percent off!"), I think they should be allowed to comment.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:28 pm

jman111 wrote:And, really, what if the new poster actually is the owner (or employee) and doesn't identify him/herself. Is (s)he not entitled to his/her opinion, as well? As long as it is not blatant advertisement ("Mention this post and get 20 percent off!"), I think they should be allowed to comment.

Do you not see that posting an opinion when you've got a clear stake in praising the establishment is a bit disingenuous? Have you never heard of the term "conflict of interest"? Here, the interest is in an honest conversation about a place. Veiled advocacy doesn't serve that interest at all.

See David Lohrentz of MSCo, Patrick Peter of Porky Pine Pete's, and Ryan Morgan from Jeni's Ice Creams as examples of up-front representatives of restaurants and food-sellers. Their contributions have been welcome additions to the conversations about their products.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:30 pm

Book- What I found most objectionable was your hypocrisy in criticizing Greg and his "clear agenda" when he questioned Thesnulda's motivation for posting ("I think Thusnelda has an ax to grind, and chose this site to make it."). What about these posts seem "shilly"? Also, it's okay to attack a newcomer because, historically, others have been pricks?

Supa- Not my friend. I have no idea who either of the "newbies" were. I've never eaten at La Rocca's. I don't know anyone associated with La Rocca's (to my knowledge). And forons regularly criticize others for their conditioned responses. Just sayin'

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:48 pm

jman111 wrote:Suspicions confirmed? Seriously?

What if they haven't stopped back (to the forum) yet to answer your question?

Don't be so naive.

I've been waiting for responses from some for many months, if not years. I guess I called them out for who they really represented and they were too embarrassed to answer. You probably have a different explanation.

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:57 pm

Christ, you're starting to sound like Blaska now: those who don't defend themselves to your accusations are guilty as charged.

I just think your use of "suspicions confirmed" is uncomfortably close to a certain "mission accomplished". A bit premature in my mind.
Do some first-timers warrant suspicion? Yes.
Do all first-timers warrant suspicion? I don't think so.

In your defense (not that I was asked for it), I have noticed your "inquisitive nature" in confronting newbies (as opposed to outright attack mode).

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:07 pm

jman111 wrote:Book- What I found most objectionable was your hypocrisy in criticizing Greg and his "clear agenda" when he questioned Thesnulda's motivation for posting ("I think Thusnelda has an ax to grind, and chose this site to make it."). What about these posts seem "shilly"? Also, it's okay to attack a newcomer because, historically, others have been pricks?

Oy. The "clear agenda" statement was in regards to vociferously complimenting the establishment. As has been stated here already, TDPF sees these first-post praisers quite frequently. They often never return, neither to the original thread nor to any other thread. This is not guilt in and of itself, but it is suspicious.

The implication that a Forum member--one who has established a track record of general trustworthiness on TDPF--was somehow insidiously working to bring La Rocca's down was absurd and highly objectionable to me. That it was made by someone who doesn't appear to have been here for more than five minutes, and has seen presumably all of one of Thusnelda's posts, is what is most grating. Thusnelda has been a member since 2003; did she "choose this site" way back then, knowing that in 2006, there would be an Italian restaurant on Willy St., and she would be the one to vanquish it?

The track record of other people acting as camouflaged advertisements does not justify the dubious questioning of first-post praisers; but it certainly informs our suspicion, does it not? Doesn't mean you have to agree, jman, but there it is. Will you acknowledge that I haven't treated every first-time poster with suspicion?

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:18 pm

jman111 wrote:Christ, you're starting to sound like Blaska now: those who don't defend themselves to your accusations are guilty as charged.

Me : Blaska? That's a first (no pun intended).

Why would anyone sign on to a forum, start (or maybe enter) a discussion about a place of business, submit one post and then disappear?

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Re: Oh, the hypocrisy on TDPF

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:19 pm

Why would anyone sign on to a forum, start (or maybe enter) a discussion about a place of business, submit one post and then disappear?


Passion for consumer electronics at low prices?


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