Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

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Mean Scenester
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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby Mean Scenester » Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:52 pm

jjoyce wrote:
Mean Scenester wrote:I do, however, suspect that the Old Guard at Isthmus doesn't quite get the electronic publishing paradigm shift or have the slightest clue how best to leverage the free content submitted daily to this site.

It's possible to be contradictory here, however, as Bill Lueders' opinion piece (clearly labeled as such and running under his byline) doesn't represent any institutional opinion at all.

True. Unless, that is, you consider Lueders himself to be something of an institution in this town.

It's also fair that while people are not only allowed by encouraged to anonymously criticize pretty much anything they'd like to on these boards, it's okay for that act itself to be criticized.

Yeah, fair game. I guess I agree with your assessment in the related thread that Lueders was wasting his energy in this particular case. Also, by calling out A.V. as "one of those miserable cowards who post comments on websites using silly pseudonyms," Lueders is making a broad generalization which could easily be interpreted (perhaps misinterpreted) to apply to all those who post on message boards under pseudonyms. It's not difficult to read into his tone a certain disdain that I don't believe he would risk trotting out in reference to the print readership.

Just sayin'. I suspect there are plenty of people who spend far more time perusing the website than they do the paper and it might be best not to casually refer to them as silly cowards.

Mind you, I'm bored, this really isn't that big a deal and I hardly think it merits an apology to the forum community. Hell, I'd guess Lueders has taken enough anonymous flack that he earned his rebuttal. Just reads kind of silly, is all, as long as we're on the subject.

Your point is well taken regarding leveraging online content. I suppose it's a bit of a minefield. Clearly, as the last few days submissions have proven, you can't please everyone.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby Shipley » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:32 pm

Its been years since I hid behind a screen name. I realized a long long time ago that if you want people to take you seriously, you have to be willing to put your name up with your opinion.

This is a lesson many more would benefit from learning. Life is unlike The Matrix and we don't get to be Neo when we're online.

The bile spat at this forum over the most trival and stupid topics and issues would be cut to a fraction if people felt responsible for their comments being reflected on their actual person. On a more personal level, every single one of my detractors here has been anonymous, nearly every one of my supporters I can identify by name.

Taking responsibility is something a grown up does. Hiding behind a play name is something a child does. Lueders gets it.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby jjoyce » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:45 pm

Once more, for clarity:

Does Bill Lueders hate Forum? I neither know nor care.

Does Isthmus hate Forum? Very clearly not. Again, several people here have contributed to the paper, the website and even our events in very real and valuable ways. We have employed writers, artists and musicians via this message board, sought out people to write letters to the editor, advocate on our behalf and even trade drinks.

And a few of us even enjoy the "spirited" give and take that goes along with disagreeing in this space. But if you go after me personally and you don't use your real name, then I'm going to respond in a way that attacks your credibility, tactics and ability. It's only fair, right?

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby ilikebeans » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:57 pm

Shipley wrote:Its been years since I hid behind a screen name. I realized a long long time ago that if you want people to take you seriously, you have to be willing to put your name up with your opinion.

Gotta disagree. My take on it is, if you want people to take you seriously, you have to put up content worthy of being taken seriously. A strong measure of that is how much respect is shown to other users (not that I'm completely innocent in that regard...).

There are plenty of Forons that I admire, and it doesn't depend on whether I can identify them on the street or not.

Putting it another way-- despite my being anonymous (for reasons mentioned earlier), I try to write like those on the board know me personally (some do). And yes, I would respond to Flanders in person like I do to him here. (Unless he's actually of linebacker build and ready to start swinging... but somehow I seriously doubt that.)

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby AlternativeVoice » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:26 pm

ilikebeans wrote:Putting it another way-- despite my being anonymous (for reasons mentioned earlier), I try to write like those on the board know me personally (some do).



This is something that's important, and something that I've spoken about before. It's very important that people try to behave on here as if they were talking to somebody face to face. Everybody would be much more calm, polite and mature if they envisioned that they were actually in a room talking to somebody. Most of the flaming trolls would go away.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby harrissimo » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:00 pm

CHOO CHOO

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby boston_jeff » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:13 am

If AV talked "for real" like he chats on TDPF I would have no problem calling him a moron to his face.


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