Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

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boston_jeff
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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby boston_jeff » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:35 pm

He had the "logic" fish sandwich with a side of "burden of proof" slaw and a nice slice of "I am so stupid I don't even realize it" humble pie.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby AlternativeVoice » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:36 pm

Based on the last three posts from the lunatic fringe, I guess they realize they've run out of arguments. So let them yuck it up, it doesn't matter to me. Being personally attacked by this bunch of sexist anti-science ignorants is a compliment. I'd only start worrying about myself if these fools actually liked me.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:38 pm

I'd only start worrying about myself if these fools actually liked me.


We know how to take 'em down boys. Spread the word.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby AlternativeVoice » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:38 pm

Make that five.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby supaunknown » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:55 pm

AlternativeVoice wrote:Call up the Dane GOP. Their phone number is 288-0059. Ask them whether Bill Lueders is allowed back to any events after that hit piece. Ask them what was REALLY said at the Election Night party.

Hilariously fair suggestion. I'm thinking about doing that, just to see what kind of reaction they actually give.
(AV, you work the desk there, don't you?)

fisticuffs wrote:So at the GOP election night party AV did you have the chicken or the fish?

I had the lasagna.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:29 pm

Putting aside for the moment what did or did not happen at the GOP election night party, I do have to take strong exception to this statement:
I have no idea who you are, because you're one of these miserable cowards who post comments on websites using a silly pseudonym. (I guess maybe there are occasional breakdowns in online etiquette.)

I'm not sure if it was just a poorly thought-out sentence there, but Lueders pretty much just condemned the existence of the entire Isthmus Forum.

Bill, many of us have very legitimate reasons for using pseudonyms, including the possibility of unwanted retribution by friends, family, and (especially) employers for expressing unpopular opinions.

I think you owe us an apology. Either you have a forum with anonymous posting, or you don't. If you do, you can't expect to have everyone be complimentary to the paper, to its staff, or to you personally.

Sincerely,
A Miserable Coward

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby thebookpolice » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:58 pm

ilikebeans wrote:I'm not sure if it was just a poorly thought-out sentence there, but Lueders pretty much just condemned the existence of the entire Isthmus Forum.

Bill, many of us have very legitimate reasons for using pseudonyms, including the possibility of unwanted retribution by friends, family, and (especially) employers for expressing unpopular opinions.

I think you owe us an apology. Either you have a forum with anonymous posting, or you don't. If you do, you can't expect to have everyone be complimentary to the paper, to its staff, or to you personally.

Sincerely,
The Dane County GOP Chairman

Fixt.

Just jokin', but it's the same argument and the GOP chair was the point of ridicule for making such a defense.

If you're a corporate whistleblower, be anonymous. If you're an inside informant, be anonymous. But if (and I do stress 'if'; I'm not trying to speak for you, only speculate on possibilities) your only reason for being anonymous is that people might razz you for your opinion, then you should think on what it is about your opinion that you think is worth sharing if you won't stand and truly defend it.

Being anonymous is fine. I started out anonymously. But don't cloak it in some grand self-preserving mystique unless you're telling people that the cigarette companies knew smokes were deadly.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby blunt » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:05 pm

The only crap blueders flung monkey-like at me was by boldface lying to me at the downtown library, swearing that they would never do book reveiews again so no, I would never get hired to write them.
Untrue.
And a bit douchey.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby bluethedog » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:36 pm

ilikebeans wrote:Putting aside for the moment what did or did not happen at the GOP election night party, I do have to take strong exception to this statement:
I have no idea who you are, because you're one of these miserable cowards who post comments on websites using a silly pseudonym. (I guess maybe there are occasional breakdowns in online etiquette.)

I'm not sure if it was just a poorly thought-out sentence there, but Lueders pretty much just condemned the existence of the entire Isthmus Forum.

I wonder if he feels the same way about Kent Williams, aka "Mr. Right", a silly pseudonym if I've ever heard one.

Can we expect the next Isthmus advice columnist to be something less than a miserable coward ???

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby Bwis53 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:35 pm

Remembering Mr.Right's columns, I think he was actually Mr.Ambidextrous...

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby ilikebeans » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:01 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:But if (and I do stress 'if'; I'm not trying to speak for you, only speculate on possibilities) your only reason for being anonymous is that people might razz you for your opinion, then you should think on what it is about your opinion that you think is worth sharing if you won't stand and truly defend it.

It's pretty simple, really: There are opinions I write on here that I won't mention at work or to certain family members in order to preserve relationships that would almost certainly be damaged otherwise.

Also, I'm sure you know that many companies will search a job candidate's online activities. I see no reason why a recruiter that I'm in contact with should know, for example, my opinion on abortion.

I also do not care to reveal aspects of my personal life to my employer, or other acquaintances, but will mention it here. Example: My employer and (most of) my coworkers do not need to know that I was out late on a work night seeing a hardcore band.

You choose not to be anonymous, which is fine; I've contemplated it myself. But to me, the negatives outweigh the positives. To take things one step further: Would Walter comment on police procedure if he knew his employer knew who he is?

Btw, I also consider leading a local political party a bit different than a recreational presence on an Internet forum. Call me crazy and a coward, if you like.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby harrissimo » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:42 am

I am with Lueders and I also agree with TheBookPolice's take on posting anonymously. If you make the kind of deflamatory statements that AV does and you do it anonymously then you are a coward.

BlueTheDog and ilikebeans conduct themselves as gentlemen on these forums and in my opinion are not cowards.

I, on the other hand, do not conduct myself as a gentleman and often make provocative statments but I am not anonymous so I am not a coward - at least not as far as internet posting is concerned.

Hey Av! Choo! Choo! All Aboard! Vote Falk for County Executive!

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby Mean Scenester » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:18 am

ilikebeans wrote:Either you have a forum with anonymous posting, or you don't. If you do, you can't expect to have everyone be complimentary to the paper, to its staff, or to you personally.

+1

It's one thing for one forum member to whine about another hiding behind an anonymous name, but when the publication itself protests, it just looks amateurish. Do you have a forum admin or not? Might I suggest that if you're technically incapable of modifying the software to authenticate your users to your own satisfaction that you have no fucking business running this board in the first place?

I don't think Lueders is really as thin-skinned as he comes across in that piece. I do, however, suspect that the Old Guard at Isthmus doesn't quite get the electronic publishing paradigm shift or have the slightest clue how best to leverage the free content submitted daily to this site.

Lueders ought to stop and ask one of his colleagues who knows just how many ad clicks-through the cowards here generate. What's that saying about biting the hand that feeds you? Oh yeah, don't do it, dumbass.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby jjoyce » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:54 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:I do, however, suspect that the Old Guard at Isthmus doesn't quite get the electronic publishing paradigm shift or have the slightest clue how best to leverage the free content submitted daily to this site.


It's possible to be contradictory here, however, as Bill Lueders' opinion piece (clearly labeled as such and running under his byline) doesn't represent any institutional opinion at all.

It's also fair that while people are not only allowed by encouraged to anonymously criticize pretty much anything they'd like to on these boards, it's okay for that act itself to be criticized.

As for "leveraging" the content on this site, that's a tightrope act. As I've tried to make very clear on another thread, there are a lot of contributors to this board who have written for Isthmus and/or TDP and been paid for it. Were they hired based on the quality of their contributions here? Not especially. Writing for pay involves a lot of factors that aren't measurable here (being able to work with an editor, meet deadlines, produce what's asked, check facts, be professional, etc.).

We excerpt a few posts in the paper and in a weekly TDP hit, but it seems like going farther would be stepping over a line with people who don't write with that in mind.

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Re: Lueders Calls Out "Alternative Voice"

Postby thebookpolice » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:57 pm

ilikebeans wrote:Would Walter comment on police procedure if he knew his employer knew who he is?

I missed this the first time around, and would just like to reply that this is the "inside informant" exception I mentioned above.


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