Mic 92.1

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eric2000
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Re: Mic 92.1

Postby eric2000 » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:35 pm

Endo Rockstar wrote:
eric2000 wrote:Isthmus could have interviewed Valerie Walasek, Gary Tipler, Dardanelles owner Barbara Wright, or any of the many supporters and business owners who rallied to keep progressive talk in Madison. Isthmus also could have researched the Madison media market and compared the choices we have to those of other markets


What in the hell could Val possibly add to the conversation...Jesus, think before you post. Ditto Burns. Instead of a vegetarian reviewing Smokey's your asking that a half starved hyena do it instead. Way to go. Obviously the only way to get a good article is to have someone write it who already thinks the way you do....right?
Dan Motor



Having thought about, and read, the article before I posted, my point was that the real story is not a "review" of the station (how often does Isthmus review Limbaugh or WPR?) but the story of how the station has now become viable through the hard work of some very dedicated people. It was worth a movie; it might be worth an Isthmus feature if they would be willing to write something informative about another media source. "Reviewing" talk radio, particularly when done by someone who doesn't like any talk radio, is pointless. People who are interested in listening have already tuned in. People who don't like talk radio aren't likely to tune in even if the reviews were glowing. A good article would tell readers something about the issues around progressive talk, or the process of saving it, that the readers hadn't already convinced themselves of. Val's opinion of progressive talk is widely known; the story behind her hard work on this is not.

-Eric

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Postby vkratz » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:15 am

Damn, I had a whole, lovely response to this discussion and then I tried to post it and it didn't take. Who the hell's in charge of this operation anyway?

TheBookPolice wrote:I like how she listened for one day and made her grand judgments based on that.


Actually, I listened for more than a month. The story was formatted as a "day," to give readers information on when the various hosts were on air and to make it easier to do mini-reviews of each host. It would have been grossly unfair of me to listen only once and then dismiss what I heard as representative of what's on the station.

Frankly, I had high hopes for Air America when it first debuted. Anything to offset the Rush Limbaughs of the world. But I hoped that liberal talk radio would be more intelligent -- funny in the Daily Show kind of way, not the Connie and Fish way. I've been disappointed. Talk radio is still talk radio, no matter who's doing it, and that to me is a very sad thing. YMMV.

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Postby thebookpolice » Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:27 am

vkratz wrote:Actually, I listened for more than a month. The story was formatted as a "day," to give readers information on when the various hosts were on air and to make it easier to do mini-reviews of each host. It would have been grossly unfair of me to listen only once and then dismiss what I heard as representative of what's on the station.


Good.

vkratz wrote:I hoped that liberal talk radio would be more intelligent -- funny in the Daily Show kind of way, not the Connie and Fish way. I've been disappointed. Talk radio is still talk radio, no matter who's doing it, and that to me is a very sad thing. YMMV.


Your critique that "talk radio is still talk radio" seems to me as though it should read "talk radio is still radio." Is there any non-musical radio programming you do like? The Daily Show needs a visual element to be as funny as it is. This is not a flaw, it's the nature of the medium: sight and sound, plus timing.

Radio, if it wants to be funny, has to do everything it does with exactly one sensory interface, and "timing" on the radio often comes across as "dead air," which no one likes. If you really don't think Rachel Maddow isn't as "Daily Show"-funny as you can be on the radio, then you either didn't listen closely enough, or you're unconvinceable. Or you're just a patently unfunny person (not likely, since you appreciate The Daily Show). Any one of those characteristics make you (in my opinion) less-than-qualified to professionally review liberal talk radio.

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Postby aaron » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:18 pm

Apparently, a pre-requisite for a lot of you is that your talk radio be "funny". Why the hell should it be funny necessarily? I don't mind a bit of humor, God knows, but I personally don't find the current state of affairs in this country even remotely funny.

That having been said, I fail to see how ANYONE couldn't find Stephanie Miller funny. I think she is hilarious, as as her two cohorts on the show.

I've also gained newfound respect for Randi Rhodes. For a long while, her rantings and ravings had begun to totally turn me off. But listening to her now on the drive home, I am amazed at how terrifically knowledgeable she is about just about everything. She even posts articles on her site to back up what she is saying, and she refuses to deal with fools who don't know what they're talking about when they call in. If she would just quit talking over her callers, she would be almost perfect.

The local stuff on The Mic sucks the big one, though.

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Postby thebookpolice » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:24 pm

aaron wrote:I fail to see how ANYONE couldn't find Stephanie Miller funny. I think she is hilarious, as as her two cohorts on the show.


Agreed. Very funny.

aaron wrote:I've also gained newfound respect for Randi Rhodes. For a long while, her rantings and ravings had begun to totally turn me off. But listening to her now on the drive home, I am amazed at how terrifically knowledgeable she is about just about everything.


Which made it all the more infuriating when 92.1 chose to preempt her (the smartest one short of Rachel Maddow on the air) for Ed Schultz (the dumbest liberal on the radio).

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Postby depinmad » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:38 pm

TheBookPolice wrote: and "timing" on the radio often comes across as "dead air," which no one likes.


howard stern, who has long had the funniest show on radio, is a master of using "dead air" as timing for jokes and conversation. the lessons other can learn from howard about the art of radio are endless.

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Postby jammybastard » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:31 pm

Viki, thanks for posting but now that I've read your comments I'm not sure 1. why you wrote the article, and 2. what your point was. Also, the "time compression" device was silly.

You say that you had "high hopes" for Air America, but were disappointed. Fair enough.

Did you know that 92.1 is NOT an Air America station?
Much like WPR's programming, The Mic's programming comes from a couple of different sources only one of which is Air America. Miller and Schultz are not an "Air America" product, Maddow and Rhodes are.
So to lump them all together and say "Air America" disappointed you shows how little research you did for this article.

You would've been correct in saying, "Liberal talk-radio is disappointing" and then told us why, but then you'd have to write it as an opinion piece instead of the quasi-opinion (couched as fluff) that your editors accepted.

As a reader of The Isthmus I appreciate many of the writers, but recently articles like yours have made me question the direction the paper is taking.
Now if I were to follow your logic I would say something like, "After 20 years of reading local alt. weeklies (Westword in Denver, The Reader in Chicago, and the Isthmus) recent articles in the Isthmus have caused me to be disappointed in a format I had high hopes for".
Does that seem fair? Baby out with the bathwater?
Not to me it doesn't.

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Postby vkratz » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:44 pm

jammybastard wrote:Viki, thanks for posting but now that I've read your comments I'm not sure 1. why you wrote the article, and 2. what your point was.


I wrote the article for the same reason that I write anything -- the subject matter interested me. And the point was -- as stated in the article -- to simply see if there was anything worth listening to on the station, especially now that Al Franken is gone. The station inspires such loyalty in its listeners, I was curious to see why and if I would get hooked too.

But ultimately, it's a review of the hosts. Which means I gave my opinion about their programming. I knew many people would disagree with me -- I seem to be the only person in the universe who doesn't find Stephanie Miller funny -- but oh, well. I'm free to say I find many of the station's hosts shallow and you're free to vigorously disagree with me.

jammybastard wrote:Did you know that 92.1 is NOT an Air America station?


I do know that, which is why I wrote about how the Mic 92.1 is an Air America-affiliate and that it often deviated from the standard Air America lineup.

jammybastard wrote:Now if I were to follow your logic, I would say something like, "After 20 years of reading local alt. weeklies (Westword in Denver, The Reader in Chicago, and the Isthmus) recent articles in the Isthmus have caused me to be disappointed in a format I had high hopes for".


Actually, I think your analogy would be more accurate if you were reviewing a new alt-weekly that tilted right instead of left. And if you were all excited because you had been waiting for just such a publication that would offer a more conservative view in a marketplace that has been dominated by liberal rags. But then you were disappointed, because it didn't rise above the fray, as you'd hoped.

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Postby ShaneDog » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:58 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:Stephanie Miller plays one Simpsons drop on a regular basis, another on an infrequent basis, and yet Vikki thought that was the best thing Steph has to offer. Hm.
I was really confused by that too. I can think of at least 3 or 4 other sound bites they play on a regular basis that are more recognizable than the two Simpsons ones you mention.

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Postby thebookpolice » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:01 pm

ShaneDog wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:Stephanie Miller plays one Simpsons drop on a regular basis, another on an infrequent basis, and yet Vikki thought that was the best thing Steph has to offer. Hm.
I was really confused by that too. I can think of at least 3 or 4 other sound bites they play on a regular basis that are more recognizable than the two Simpsons ones you mention.


If I wasn't a Simpsons nerd, there's no way I'd recognize the "Jiggles" drop as a Simpsons line. And even the Maude line ("Won't someone please think of the children!!") isn't exactly A-list character material. Is there another one I'm not thinking of that Vikki might have heard? Vikki, care to weigh in on a trivial matter?

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Postby ShaneDog » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:04 pm

vkratz wrote:Frankly, I had high hopes for Air America when it first debuted. Anything to offset the Rush Limbaughs of the world. But I hoped that liberal talk radio would be more intelligent -- funny in the Daily Show kind of way, not the Connie and Fish way.

Actually, if you pay close attention, and can see past the sex jokes, the Stephanie Miller Show hews really close to Jon Stewart's "point out the hypocrisy everywhere" formula.

I think The Stephanie Miller show is one of those things that grows on you and the more you listen to it the more you get into the recurring bits and inside jokes they have. It's the only radio show other than Mel and Floyd that has ever made me laugh out loud in my car.

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Postby white_rabbit » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:26 pm

ShaneDog wrote:I think The Stephanie Miller show is one of those things that grows on you and the more you listen to it the more you get into the recurring bits and inside jokes they have. It's the only radio show other than Mel and Floyd that has ever made me laugh out loud in my car.


Exactly. My day just isn't right if I don't hear "K-to-the-J-to-the-IL-in the Hizzie".

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Postby Stu Levitan » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:10 pm

vkratz wrote:I wrote the article for the same reason that I write anything -- the subject matter interested me. And the point was -- as stated in the article -- to simply see if there was anything worth listening to on the station, especially now that Al Franken is gone.


Gee, Vikki, I'm sorry a radio show that over the past five months has brought you extended conversations with Robert Redford (in his only local broadcast interview), Anne Lamott, Greg Palast, Bob Weir, Jorma Kaukonen, Alix Olson, Dar Williams, Jim Baughman, Ben Sidran and others, and has examined issues ranging from protest music in antebellum America and the slave trade to Brazil to the role of borders in shaping our national identity to the history of the Pentagon to educating children in the mountains of Pakistan to the vengeance of the American penal system to gay Chicano poets to the murders at Taliesin to the 1984 NBA draft to Fats Domino (well, you get the picture) doesn't interest you enough to include in your fairly extensive article, and apparently isn't a show you find worth listening to. Guess there's nothing I can do about that, 'cept to keep on keepin' on.

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Postby eric2000 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:26 pm

vkratz wrote:

I wrote the article for the same reason that I write anything -- the subject matter interested me. And the point was -- as stated in the article -- to simply see if there was anything worth listening to on the station, especially now that Al Franken is gone.
But ultimately, it's a review of the hosts.

Which means I gave my opinion about their programming. I knew many people would disagree with me -- I seem to be the only person in the universe who doesn't find Stephanie Miller funny -- but oh, well. I'm free to say I find many of the station's hosts shallow and you're free to vigorously disagree with me.


Vikki,
From what you appear to be saying, your article was written in such a way as to imitate the things that you dislike most about talk radio in that:

1. It wasn't funny.
2. It was shallow.
3. It was one person's opinion, with little emphasis on factual content.
4. The emphasis was chosen purely because it interested you.
5. It was designed to provoke a strong emotional reaction from the audience, in terms of forcing people to agree or disagree with you.

These seem to be the general complaints I hear from people who dislike progressive talk or talk radio in general. At times, they certainly can be fair criticisms of talk radio from the perspective of some people. However, people will agree or disagree on what they find to be funny, thought-provoking, or entertaining. This isn't a useful argument. Radio is different from movies or restaurants in that anyone who wants to listen can tune in with very little opportunity cost, and radio shows change daily. There isn't any point to having a newspaper "review" talk radio.

I would encourage you to look beyond your own impressions and find out WHY people are so devoted to it, or to research the reason that it is so critical that progressive talk continue to be a viable source of information and entertainment in this market and beyond. Just publishing the actual hourly ratings, along with geographic coverage area information, of different talk stations in the Madison area would have been much more useful than your article. ]

By the way, I very much enjoy your show, Stu.
-Eric

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Postby white_rabbit » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:30 pm

eric2000 wrote:
By the way, I very much enjoy your show, Stu.
-Eric


Ditto's. Stu and I haven't always seen eye-to-eye on the forum, but Stu does good radio.


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