The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Bars, wine, beer, cocktails, drunken escapades
swoon_queen
Forum Addict
Posts: 352
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:23 pm
Location: east side

The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby swoon_queen » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:11 am

As a former bartender and cocktail waitress, I found the attitude in Jack Craver's recent editorializing of the City Alcohol Policy Coordinator's "best practices" for Madison bars a little off-putting.

http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=29450

The suggestions he quotes may sound bizarre, ironic, or just plain silly to someone who's never tended bar or dealt with extremely intoxicated patrons before, but they're not outlandish, and it seems he is asserting otherwise (unless I misinterpreted the article).

I don't know if this is the right thread in which to place this topic but I'm wondering what folks think the Alcohol Policy Coordinator should encourage/discourage, if loud, unpleasant, obnoxious, behavior should be considered standard operating procedure (or even a keystone of a successful profit model) in a bar?

chainsawcurtis
Forum Addict
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:30 pm
Location: Toetown, WI
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby chainsawcurtis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:06 am

The city folks don't seem to spend much time in bars

A lot of the things the city would rather not have many taverns already do especially if they serve actual food as opposed to bag chips or Tombstones- half price appetizers, 25¢ chicken wings, free smelt on Sunday morning - they're out there. Some chain places, like Applebee's, a "family friendly" tavern, keep a tight rein on how much people drink. I don't think you can get a beer with a "snoot on the side" in Applebee's because it's against their policy of more than one drink an hour or something like that.*

If the city wants to ban happy hours then they will have to regulate how much all bars can charge for their product. I don't think that pig will fly.

But, the city is assuming that "loud" is synonymous with "unpleasant" and "obnoxious." These people should stay home alone or with a friend. I connect loudness with conviviality and my low-level paranoia makes me think that a group of people speaking in hushed tones in a bar may be plotting something. Like robbing the place or murder.

I think a lot of bars give free pops to designated drivers already.

Diverse music? In order to build a standing crowd for your music nights it's best to have set styles all the time. Sure there are exceptions but a place like the High Noon is well known for it's music diversity. Bob's Corner Bar has a classic rock band every Saturday no matter what, dammit. Folks will always go there on Saturday night no matter which classic rock band - good or bad - is playing.

*Based solely on what two friends of mine told me when they were training to tend bar at the Bee's in Janesville. These women were long time experienced area bartenders and they didn't last long. Corporate policies made it very hard to make good tips.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 21223
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:31 am

chainsawcurtis wrote:...free smelt on Sunday morning - they're out there.

Where? I'm a smelt fan and free is good.

O.J.
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3145
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:13 am

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby O.J. » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:39 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
chainsawcurtis wrote:...free smelt on Sunday morning - they're out there.

Where? I'm a smelt fan and free is good.


Just look for the "You smelt it, I dealt it" sign.

green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:28 pm

3.) Offer a diverse music set. Offer different types of shows and aim for a diverse demographic. If you do the same genre over and over again, you may attract the same crowd which may result in future problems.

4.) Market to a wide audience. The more diverse the crowd, the less likely you are to have problems. If you are distributing flyers, don’t focus exclusively on certain areas or certain populations.


This is a coded anti-hip-hop message.

It also displays the fundamental misunderstanding that "hip-hop is the problem." Rather, the problem is the small subset of troublemakers who are attracted to hip-hop. It only takes one idiot bringing a gun to a venue packed with responsible hip-hop fans to cause a problem for everyone. [see: The old (new) Majestic]

HOMOsapien

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby HOMOsapien » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:59 pm

Really? Now I know your purpose here is to plant BS into posts in order to misdirect them.

JC, how not clear could this feel good code be? It's a coded 'diversity' message. Music 'diversity' in left speak means tax subsidized exposure to non-western music. Hip-Hop is western. Spare me the technical details of 'where it came from.' I'm well aware of these details and it is besides the point.

fisticuffs
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7965
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:49 pm
Location: Slightly outside of Madison
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:14 pm

It's a coded 'diversity' message. Music 'diversity' in left speak means tax subsidized exposure to non-western music.


Where the fuck did that come from? Why is it every time one of you tea-baggers comes on this board you tell us all how someone else thinks? It'd be one thing if any of you idiots understood your OWN platform and ideology but to constantly parrot what the other side wants and how they think is pure douchbaggerry of the highest degree.

jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby jjoyce » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:22 pm

Question for those who know: At what point will some of these proposed best practices become legislation? Is this the slippery slope of the smoking ban?

And was anyone who actually knows anything about booking a show, running a bar or serving drinks consulted? I mean, a best practice is typically geared toward success, not just to appease some government consultant. In truth, what pleases a government consultant is rarely going to be good for the bar business.

The more I think about these recommendations, the ornerier I get.

Petro
Forum Addict
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:08 am
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby Petro » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:13 pm

chainsawcurtis wrote:If the city wants to ban happy hours then they will have to regulate how much all bars can charge for their product. I don't think that pig will fly.


They don't have to regulate drink prices. They simply need to pass legislation that states that drink prices can't be set for a window that's less than 12 hours. Suddenly the happy hour loss-leader becomes a guaranteed loss, and the practice abruptly ends.

green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2994
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:28 pm

I would hope that these are merely "recommendations" and that the city doesn't try to venture into price controls or first ammendment restrictions.

ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:53 pm

Petro wrote:They don't have to regulate drink prices. They simply need to pass legislation that states that drink prices can't be set for a window that's less than 12 hours. Suddenly the happy hour loss-leader becomes a guaranteed loss, and the practice abruptly ends.

So, you're basically proposing a de facto price control? How is the owner's freedom to set prices any different from the freedom to change them?
This top-down "best-practices" approach is quite silly to me. Of course, so is the smoking ban, the post-9pm carryout prohibition, and alcohol sales licensing in general.

Petro
Forum Addict
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:08 am
Contact:

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby Petro » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:00 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:
Petro wrote:They don't have to regulate drink prices. They simply need to pass legislation that states that drink prices can't be set for a window that's less than 12 hours. Suddenly the happy hour loss-leader becomes a guaranteed loss, and the practice abruptly ends.

So, you're basically proposing a de facto price control? How is the owner's freedom to set prices any different from the freedom to change them?
This top-down "best-practices" approach is quite silly to me. Of course, so is the smoking ban, the post-9pm carryout prohibition, and alcohol sales licensing in general.


Let's get something straight - I'm not proposing anything. I like happy hours. I sometimes take part in them on the rare occasions when I actually leave the office early enough to enjoy them.

That price change restriction is precisely how they banned happy hours in Illinois, amid other restrictions that we're blessedly not burdened with here. I know of well-intentioned bar owners that have been fined simply for using the phrase "happy hour" on promotional material.

The "best practices" (quotes emphasized) seem like a misguided attempt by bureaucrats to seem like they're helping the community while actually doing nothing at all. If we're fortunate they'll prove me right by doing nothing more than issuing these "best practices".

ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: The City of Madison would prefer that bars...

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:15 pm

Right on, Petro. I was unable to gauge your (lack of) support for the policy you described. We should not accept a policy that controls prices or price volatility. Neither should Illinois.


Return to “Beer, wine & cocktails”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest