The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby flanneljammies » Wed May 29, 2013 1:21 pm

So... wait? You're saying you DON'T like Dylan? :D

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed May 29, 2013 1:34 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:The same situation turned me from meh-to-HATE on Talking Heads. Whatever unbearably-long live album of theirs I had to hear three times every shift was some of the most annoying music I've ever heard.
Heh. You must be referring to The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads, which I think is absolutely fantastic. It'll be a few years before I get to it in this project, but I look forward to hearing you bash it again then after I've praised it.

Too bad we never worked at Disc-Go-Round at the same time -- we could've had some awesome CD-changer duels.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Kyle Motor » Wed May 29, 2013 1:45 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Kyle Motor wrote:The same situation turned me from meh-to-HATE on Talking Heads. Whatever unbearably-long live album of theirs I had to hear three times every shift was some of the most annoying music I've ever heard.
Heh. You must be referring to The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads, which I think is absolutely fantastic. It'll be a few years before I get to it in this project, but I look forward to hearing you bash it again then after I've praised it.

Too bad we never worked at Disc-Go-Round at the same time -- we could've had some awesome CD-changer duels.

The old Disc-Go-Round was great when I worked there. Dead most of the time, working solo, listening to anything and everything I found in the racks.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby rrnate » Wed May 29, 2013 2:50 pm

Reminder: Kyle really likes the J. Geils Band, so let's remember to take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby rrnate » Wed May 29, 2013 3:01 pm

I think there is a really great Dylan era circa the Basement Tapes and it's most definitely my favorite era.

* Basement Tapes - so many great Dylan songs here. I know it's super mythologized by Greil Marcus and Bobtards everywhere, but it really is great. In a more perfect world, they would have legit been Dylan's band for a whole bunch of really good albums, with these songs recorded in this style, but just with better fidelity. (I love how the Greatest Hits 3 "new" recordings are just better fidelity, super sloppy versions of some of these songs.)

* New Morning - so awesome. This is the bit where Dylan really nails singing with a band and it's really the last time for me where he is a great front man. (To a lesser extent, I'd say Self-Portrait fits the bill here too - only half of it is good, but that half wouldn't sound out of place here.)

* Bootleg Series - also has a number of great country-rock things on it (Santa Fe, WallFlower co-written with Doug Sahm) that show how good he was at this stuff. That demo of Forever Young Wagstaff speaks of is indeed so good, it's haunting that it is then completely shat all over on the 'official' recording and pretty much every cover ever since then.

* Blood On The Tracks - I only like half of it, but the good half is so good.

Basically, Dylan is amazingly good through this era and then there is a big drop off as he stopped working w/ the Band and country session dudes, and seemingly stopped worrying about choruses (going back to "refrains").

Also, that Flood album w/ the Band seemed really terrible to me when I was like 10 and checked it out on cassette, but I should probably give it another look. At the time, he just seemed like he was shouting all the lyrics.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed May 29, 2013 5:34 pm

rrnate wrote:Bootleg Series ... That demo of Forever Young Wagstaff speaks of is indeed so good, it's haunting that it is then completely shat all over on the 'official' recording and pretty much every cover ever since then.

The awesome "Forever Young" is on Biograph, not Bootleg.... Pay attention! But yeah, every other version of it blows.

rrnate wrote:Blood On The Tracks - I only like half of it, but the good half is so good.
I agree, but I wonder if we like the same half. I remember discussing this with Marvell once and being surprised how differently we viewed that record. Do you like "Idiot Wind"? 'Cuz I like the lyrics, but dislike the melody and Dylan's vox on it. And I can't stand "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack Of Hearts" which seems to go on for as long as the rest of the record combined.

rrnate wrote:Basically, Dylan is amazingly good through this era and then there is a big drop off as he stopped working w/ the Band and country session dudes
Well, Planet Waves is The Band, and it is dreadful, so there's more to it than just that. And for my money, his best work with country session dudes remains Blonde On Blonde. And it's just session dudes (I think) on John Wesley Harding, which as I said, bores me. Charlie McCoy's bass playing on that record is particularly bad (or rather, inappropriate), I think.

rrnate wrote:...and seemingly stopped worrying about choruses (going back to "refrains").
This is an interesting theory, which I will have to think about some more.

rrnate wrote:Also, that Flood album w/ the Band seemed really terrible to me when I was like 10 and checked it out on cassette, but I should probably give it another look. At the time, he just seemed like he was shouting all the lyrics.
If you have Biograph, check out the awesome fucking version of "Most Likely You Go Your Way, I'll Go Mine" which is from Before The Flood. If you don't like that, you won't like that album. (The live "All Along The Watchtower" is also from that.)

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed May 29, 2013 5:40 pm

rrnate wrote:Reminder: Kyle really likes the J. Geils Band, so let's remember to take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

Reminder: Nate really dislikes the J. Geils Band, so let's remember to take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby rrnate » Wed May 29, 2013 7:20 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:The awesome "Forever Young" is on Biograph, not Bootleg.... Pay attention! But yeah, every other version of it blows.


Durp - good call. I long ago divorced the things I liked from the things I hated on Biograph and Bootleg so the line is a bit hazy for me. Completely blows my mind that this isn't the version that's well known, or, at least the version that some enterprising musician makes off with to acclaim and commercial-soundtracking-glory.

rrnate wrote:Blood On The Tracks - I only like half of it, but the good half is so good.
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:I agree, but I wonder if we like the same half. I remember discussing this with Marvell once and being surprised how differently we viewed that record. Do you like "Idiot Wind"? 'Cuz I like the lyrics, but dislike the melody and Dylan's vox on it. And I can't stand "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack Of Hearts" which seems to go on for as long as the rest of the record combined.


Pretty sure we're on the same page here - I really don't like either of those songs. My favs include Tangled, You're A Big Girl Now, Lonesome When You Go, Buckets, Abandoned Love and sometimes Simple Twist (though it's a bit too '70s for me - it kind of sounds like the songs in Altman's Nashville or that it would be soundtracking some gross swingers party or something).

rrnate wrote:Basically, Dylan is amazingly good through this era and then there is a big drop off as he stopped working w/ the Band and country session dudes
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Well, Planet Waves is The Band, and it is dreadful, so there's more to it than just that. And for my money, his best work with country session dudes remains Blonde On Blonde. And it's just session dudes (I think) on John Wesley Harding, which as I said, bores me. Charlie McCoy's bass playing on that record is particularly bad (or rather, inappropriate), I think.


I had it in my head that Charlie Daniels plays bass on this, but oh, I see that was a bit later. It definitely suffers from "bored bass player" syndrome.

Seems pretty clear that Cocaine should have been a co-producer on Planet Waves. I think the Band in general is pretty lame by this point, and may have been less so had they not gone off on their own and briefly got really famous. (Still, I like their first couple albums too, so.)

rrnate wrote:...and seemingly stopped worrying about choruses (going back to "refrains").
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:This is an interesting theory, which I will have to think about some more.


I am completely full of interesting theories. I will relay my much more in-depth and far reaching theory about how a lot of 60's "songwriting greats" stopped writing bridges in the '70's - this shit goes all the way to the top.

rrnate wrote:Also, that Flood album w/ the Band seemed really terrible to me when I was like 10 and checked it out on cassette, but I should probably give it another look. At the time, he just seemed like he was shouting all the lyrics.
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:If you have Biograph, check out the awesome fucking version of "Most Likely You Go Your Way, I'll Go Mine" which is from Before The Flood. If you don't like that, you won't like that album. (The live "All Along The Watchtower" is also from that.)


Yeah, that stuff all sounds like Planet Waves to me. Basically, Dylan in the Basement Tapes and in New Morning and kind of still in Blood On The Tracks sounds like someone who has gotten really comfortable singing and is actually doing it with nuance - Flood sounds like he should have asked them to turn the monitors up. (Waves sounds like that too.)

Also - no recent albums? Love & Theft is pretty good and really does the "old timey" vibe that he kind of conveys on his radio show. (All of his other modern recordings are overrated.)

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu May 30, 2013 9:06 am

rrnate wrote:Also - no recent albums?
Nope.
When I said I lost interest after Desire, I meant it.
Seriously though, I've heard every "this is his best since Blood On The Tracks" album and they've all left me cold.* If Love and Theft is somehow better than all the other ones I've been told were great, I didn't notice. (My girlfriend loves that one, so I've heard it several times at her place and remember exactly nothing about it in particular.) I will happily check out any particular song if'n you wanna post a link, but I bet my reaction will be "his voice sounds absolutely terrible" and/or "this song is boring", because that's been my general reaction for quite some time now.

*I have not heard his Christmas album. I've heard/seen the video for "It Must Be Santa" and thought it was an abomination. I think I will continue to avoid the album.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Kyle Motor » Thu May 30, 2013 9:56 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
rrnate wrote:Also - no recent albums?
Nope.
When I said I lost interest after Desire, I meant it.
Seriously though, I've heard every "this is his best since Blood On The Tracks" album and they've all left me cold.

You don't like an elderly white guy with a horrible voice doing 12-bar blues?

Too much Dylan talk here. Get to ELO already!

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu May 30, 2013 10:09 am

Kyle Motor wrote:Get to ELO already!
Patience, sir. Still some Ds left and besides, why would you want me to skip The Easybeats?!

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Kyle Motor » Thu May 30, 2013 10:15 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:why would you want me to skip The Easybeats?!

Please go directly to Easybeats. I've been inadvertently running into so many cover versions of "Good Times", I need them all.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu May 30, 2013 10:24 am

Kyle Motor wrote:Please go directly to Easybeats.
Calm down.
Jamming The Dynamics right now.
Good stuff.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby Igor » Thu May 30, 2013 7:47 pm

Kyle Motor wrote:Too much Dylan talk here. Get to ELO already!


I hope it is good ELO (On the Third Day thru Out of the Blue, inclusive) Well, I guess Time is okay too.

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Re: The Giant Wagstaff CD Listening Project Thread

Postby scratch » Thu May 30, 2013 8:33 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
Kyle Motor wrote:Please go directly to Easybeats.
Calm down.
Jamming The Dynamics right now.


So no Dino Desi & Billy in the archive?


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