Average Joe wrote:
defactobrigade wrote:NO SHIT YOU SHOULD PAY THEM. THEY SHOULD GET ALL THE DOOR MONEY, they played the shows.
How much should the bands pay for advertising and promotion?
Nothing. Why should bands pay for promotion? That's ludicrous (I obviously see where you're going with the argument and will address the majority of it below).
Do you book shows or play shows? Please advise if you do, cuz if yr spending money on promotion or advertisement I'd love to know so I can laugh at you for being so stupid. My gut tells me yr just some guy who "thinks" they know how playing shows works. I don't even think Tag has that high of an overhead with advertising other than taking out ads in the Isthmus/Onion/Flyering, but that could be higher than I know. Most of the other promotion is via internet for free and A LOT of it comes from bands working hard/NOT SUCKING. Shows CAN and DO get promoted for free that make lots of money all the time. You act like this is some huge tour/major label operation. This is a fucking show in Madison Wisconsin with Madison Wisconsin Bands. This should cost absolutely 0 dollars to promote WHEN you own the largest indie publication in town. Everyone who knew about the event probably knew about it WELL in advance. And all the other people who later learned about said event would have heard about it from the BANDS.
I do play shows...quite often I'd say...and have for quite some time in Madison. I have NEVER paid for advertising and my shows HAVE been put into the Isthmus/Onion/Other Papers/WORT/WSUM - and said shows have been sold out/packed (even without the help of the Isthmus), this can be done without fancy promotion (which I doubt the Isthmus did for this event). Bands promote their shows all the time FOR FREE. And bands that don't suck usually have no problem getting a loyal following in town without the help of the "press" at large. Additionally I think it's SAFE to argue that the over 50 percent of people who came through the door at this show were FRIENDS OR FAMILY of the bands and hence those bands got them to the show, NOT THE ISTHMUS. So that promotion had nothing to do with the at least 50% of people coming through the door, right?
Additionally if you think they paid a lot of money for advertising for this show, dream on. They print their shit EVERY week REGARDLESS if this show existed. AND the best part? Majestic PROBABLY took a print ad out IN THE ISTHMUS for this show. It was at least on their weekly listings. So THAT promotion ACTUALLY MADE THEM MONEY. There WAS probably some minimal extra promotion, most of which was probably time/hours put in by Isthmus staff for the event and promotion on Radio which I would hope they wouldn't pay for. It'd probably be safe to argue that the staff who put the event on got paid to work on it, and PROBABLY ended up making A LOT more than the individual members of the bands, which is sorta laughable but not surprising. I mean playing in bands is not really a way to make money, but I just don't agree with the Isthmus taking any of the door money. They may have even got a cut of the bar tab for all we know. Sometimes bars pay out of the tab in addition to the door for large shows.
So the people running it make money, plus they get door money, plus they get advertising money from BEER COMPANIES - because last time I DISTINCTLY REMEMBER BANDS ONLY BEING ABLE TO DRINK A CERTAIN TYPE OF BEER BECAUSE THEY were the advertiser - bands got a free 6 pack of beer....great...while who knows what sorta profit the Isthmus would make off that too. And whoever else might have been an advertiser would have paid the Isthmus as well.
I HIGHLY doubt the cost for their advertising of the show would be more than their own advertising revenue would bring in from one issue of the Isthmus alone. And that's a small price to pay if the Isthmus REALLY IS about cultivating a scene, right? Shouldn't they be operating with the intention of cultivating a scene? Isn't that the point of this?! That's inherent in this. Obviously I think the Isthmus has a part in the scene, but I would say if anything it's a small part. I've seen PLENTY of bands get popular in town WITHOUT the help of the Isthmus, so it doesn't really seem to be something that's "running the scene" - And lastly, If you're going to argue that the Isthmus losses money on this thing. Well then you can go take a hike, cuz yr obviously stupid.
So at the end of the day....so the fuck what?
The Isthmus made money. Yeah? So? That's fine. People gotta live. People gotta eat. I obviously am not so stupid to think that they shouldn't be allowed to cash in on this, it's their promotion. But....I guess I just have a problem with them after I had heard that they weren't going to pay the losing band last year. if that's a true story, and words had to be said to get at least some of the door money, well that's just very bad, shady and not something anyone "trying to help the scene" should be caught doing in my opinion. That sorta ruins it for me....