Who's sick of the Race Card being whipped in their face?

Who's making noise in and around Madison? What's new in the business of making music around town? Review shows and CDs here. Please keep all hype in Hype Exchange.

Are you sick of the Race card being pulled?

Yes
19
61%
No
7
23%
What are you talking about?
5
16%
 
Total votes: 31

madt0wn
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Who's sick of the Race Card being whipped in their face?

Postby madt0wn » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:36 pm

I know we're in a predominantly white society here, but that doesn't automatically mean we're racists. It doesn't mean we're not either, but I've seen too many issues turned to the race issue that I think have no business going that way. Anyone else feel the same?

musiclover
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:20 pm

Postby musiclover » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:42 pm

See what I mean....

madt0wn
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby madt0wn » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:51 pm

See what? You've made no point in this, or any other thread. You tried stirring a hornets nest by bringing race to issue. But not much else. What proof do you have that a white guy woudn't have gotten screwed?

ShaneDog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4296
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: E Wash
Contact:

Re: Who's sick of the Race Card being whipped in their face?

Postby ShaneDog » Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:55 pm

[quote="madt0wn"]I know we're in a predominantly white society here, but that doesn't automatically mean we're racists.[/quote]
That depends on how you define "racist". Whether they want to admit it or not, every white person has grown up benefiting from institutionalized white priviledge. If you accept this conclusion, as many people do, and realize that this system of "white priviledge" is systematically benefiting white people at the expense of people of color, you come to the conclusion that all white people are racist. The term racist, in this context means that people are benefitting from a discriminatory system and not doing anything to change the system to make it more fair. It does not mean that all white people are overt racists and actively working to keep people of color down.
If you look at society, it is pretty obvious that either a) people of color are somehow inferior to white people or b) some system of oppression is skewing the system to the benefit of some group or groups over other.

Option a has been disproven by anthropologists and geneticists.
Option b seems to be the most likely conclusion to me.

musiclover
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:20 pm

Postby musiclover » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:00 pm

Because he didn't, that's why. Did Nick screw Howard Dean when he had a fundraiser there?? Did he screw Tammy Baldwin when she had one there? I've talked to lots of people in the community who have used this venue for fundraisers and they NEVER would have imagined that the owner would DIRESPECT them and take their profits and then CEASE COMMUNICATIONS. Do they think he's a jerk - yep, heard that a number of times - but to take a groups profits and not communicate - means you don't even think they are important enough to respond to and in this case...race matters - because it is the only difference between my friend and the others who have had events there and gotten paid afterwards. Contract or not...In fact some of the non-profit groups I've talked to admit they didn't have contracts either - they just agreed on the specifics.

AJ Love
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3618
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:11 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Postby AJ Love » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:05 pm

[quote="musiclover"]See what I mean....[/quote]

indeed

I think race is indeed a relevant issue here. and I agree with musiclover, that, had the situation been reversed and a black club owner did that to a white promoter, the black owner would be in jail/facing legal issues and would be faced with the prospect of his club being shut down. I absolutely believe that

it has been said that the issue of race is similar to a big elephant being in a room, everyone (or most people) sees it but most don't want to talk about it

furthermore---why is it that so many people get so defensive when the issue of race is brought up? Musiclover is bringing a situation that reeks of possible racism happening, he is not accusing everyone is the city of Madison of being racist

ShaneDog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4296
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: E Wash
Contact:

Postby ShaneDog » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:08 pm

In general, I believe the reason many white people get so defensive when talking about race is because they want to believe that they got where they did by hard work and being smart or whatever but having to think about white priviledge makes them uncomfortable because they realize that they may not necessarily deserve everything they have.

madt0wn
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 654
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:09 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Postby madt0wn » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:11 pm

That's cool AJ, I'm glad you're willing to discuss it.

Shanedog, I was raised with every advantage available and I've had an extremely easy life in most instances. I'm not ashamed, nor do I think I should be. I'm just asking for proof.

Musiclover, thank you for the examples. That's all I was looking for.

AJ Love
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3618
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 10:11 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Postby AJ Love » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:15 pm

Shanedog wrote: {In general, I believe the reason many white people get so defensive when talking about race is because they want to believe that they got where they did by hard work and being smart or whatever but having to think about white priviledge makes them uncomfortable because they realize that they may not necessarily deserve everything they have.}

that makes sense. and the fact of the matter is that most white people (like most peoples of all races) are indeed good, kind hearted, fair minded people. The other fact of the matter is that racism still persists in Madison and throughout the world and people who feel strongly about changing that reality are going to speak out about it whenever it comes up

ko-Kayne
Forum Addict
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:59 pm
Contact:

Postby ko-Kayne » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:17 pm

[quote="ShaneDog"]In general, I believe the reason many white people get so defensive when talking about race is because they want to believe that they got where they did by hard work and being smart or whatever but having to think about white priviledge makes them uncomfortable because they realize that they may not necessarily deserve everything they have.[/quote]

"in general " what you said is bullshit, complete and total bullshit.

do you think people really think like this? can you really dumb down centuries worth of history into a matter of insecurity?

ShaneDog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4296
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: E Wash
Contact:

Postby ShaneDog » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:19 pm

[quote="ko-Kayne"][quote="ShaneDog"]In general, I believe the reason many white people get so defensive when talking about race is because they want to believe that they got where they did by hard work and being smart or whatever but having to think about white priviledge makes them uncomfortable because they realize that they may not necessarily deserve everything they have.[/quote]

"in general " what you said is bullshit, complete and total bullshit.

do you think people really think like this? can you really dumb down centuries worth of history into a matter of insecurity?[/quote]

So...why do you think white people get defensive when talking about race/racism?

ko-Kayne
Forum Addict
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:59 pm
Contact:

Postby ko-Kayne » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:37 pm

1. i don't think that "white people" as a whole are defensive when it comes to discussions on race. While some people are, some people aren't , you just can't generalize like that, be it for white people or for any other ethnic group we could bring up.

2. what i really think is bullshit is your point that white people all feel some sort of guilt for the the system of social stratification that is found in america. what you are arguing is economics and social stratification, and while race is an issue in these matters it is not the main point. the way you agrued your point, it would seem to me that you think that even poor as dirt white farmers who struggle each day to make it, or even that poor college student working at mcdonalds should be grateful for being white as it has brought them so much in return, because hard work and skill means nothing.

SIZZAW
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1862
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:24 pm
Location: Aqui
Contact:

Postby SIZZAW » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:44 pm

I don't get defensive if the question is put to me. I think most races get defensive when the subject is broached, it's not easy to see yourself for what you really are sometimes.

I think that instead of putting yourself on any side of a fence, it's better to tear that fence down. I attempt to do so by monitoring my own behavior and reactions, being honest, and letting folks know how I feel when the opportunity presents itself.

Racism exists. It exists here. It exists there. It exists everywhere, if you look hard enough for it. Defining it in general terms and applying it to any race just makes the problem worse, IMO.

I don't identify with what white racists, black racists, or any racist has to say. It's the individuals that do that really need to be educated.

In the end (especially in this great country) we are all expected to act responsibly and without prejudice, right? Seems to me this is an individual task, not a collective issue. Of course groups like the KKK can take a flying leap, but it boils down to the individual, doesn't it?

I still have my own kneejerk reactions that I feel are residual from all of the BS I witnessed as a kid in a very racist city. I do acknowledge them and work on them, I am proud to say that most have been eliminated from my little brain.

ShaneDog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4296
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: E Wash
Contact:

Postby ShaneDog » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:45 pm

[quote="ko-Kayne"]1. i don't think that "white people" as a whole are defensive when it comes to discussions on race. While some people are, some people aren't , you just can't generalize like that, be it for white people or for any other ethnic group we could bring up.[/quote]

I never said that white people as a whole are defensive when it comes to discussions on race...I gave a reason why many white people who are defensive about race (as opposed to white people who don't get defensive about race which I said nothing about).

[quote="ko-Kayne"]2. what i really think is bullshit is your point that white people all feel some sort of guilt for the the system of social stratification that is found in america. what you are arguing is economics and social stratification, and while race is an issue in these matters it is not the main point.[/quote]
That wasn't my point. My point is that all white people whether they recognize it or not benefit from white priviledge. How they choose to deal with it (if they are even aware of it) is part of the discussion but I never suggested or implied that anyone should feel guilty.

Smartypants
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 9:45 am
Location: In an office somewhere....
Contact:

Postby Smartypants » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:45 pm

[quote="ko-Kayne"][quote="ShaneDog"]In general, I believe the reason many white people get so defensive when talking about race is because they want to believe that they got where they did by hard work and being smart or whatever but having to think about white priviledge makes them uncomfortable because they realize that they may not necessarily deserve everything they have.[/quote]

"in general " what you said is bullshit, complete and total bullshit.

do you think people really think like this? can you really dumb down centuries worth of history into a matter of insecurity?[/quote]

Nevermind. ko-Kayne's later post clarified my misunderstanding. Racism sucks, unfairness sucks, generalizations suck but the fact that those things are alive and well means someone benefits, someone loses. that sucks too. But at least we have music. :twisted:
Last edited by Smartypants on Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Madison Music”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest